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A response to Pastor Wisper Gwena: Difference between revisions
→January 6, 2018
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::I asked whether you had read it. So why duck the question. The Gospel should be presented clearly but your approach to explaining things can best be described as obfuscation - the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.. That is what I made of your "explanation" of the brown bear vision. It was not clear and did not tie into either the Bible or the biblical discrepancies you highlighed. | ::I asked whether you had read it. So why duck the question. The Gospel should be presented clearly but your approach to explaining things can best be described as obfuscation - the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.. That is what I made of your "explanation" of the brown bear vision. It was not clear and did not tie into either the Bible or the biblical discrepancies you highlighed. | ||
:I notice you try and delude people with theories, psychological explanations and dictionary definitions that try and confuse a simple issue. A typical example is when you tried to define fact and truth in your episode 1 by dictionary definitions when the example I gave was simple and straight forward and could be followed by any common man. Your whole evidence gathering to disprove God’s Prophet is based on finding facts. John questions WMB’s birthday based on documental evidence which is exactly the same as the example I gave of my birthday. There are many reasons why a document can have different information to the TRUE position. You are putting a man (WMB) that is no longer here on trial when truth could only be established from him. I wonder how you even believe the bible if your belief system is based on evidence. What evidence do you have that Moses saw a burning bush? | :''I notice you try and delude people with theories, psychological explanations and dictionary definitions that try and confuse a simple issue. A typical example is when you tried to define fact and truth in your episode 1 by dictionary definitions when the example I gave was simple and straight forward and could be followed by any common man. Your whole evidence gathering to disprove God’s Prophet is based on finding facts. John questions WMB’s birthday based on documental evidence which is exactly the same as the example I gave of my birthday. There are many reasons why a document can have different information to the TRUE position. You are putting a man (WMB) that is no longer here on trial when truth could only be established from him. I wonder how you even believe the bible if your belief system is based on evidence. What evidence do you have that Moses saw a burning bush? | ||
::I confuse people with dictionary definitions? '''LOL!''' Your explanation provided a FALSE definition of a fact. Whereas we explained the difference clearly. You birth certificat is FACTUALLY INCORRECT. The fact is that your government documents are not factual. So how can they be presented as facts? Your explanation was meant to mislead people away from the truth. | ::I confuse people with dictionary definitions? '''LOL!''' Your explanation provided a FALSE definition of a fact. Whereas we explained the difference clearly. You birth certificat is FACTUALLY INCORRECT. The fact is that your government documents are not factual. So how can they be presented as facts? Your explanation was meant to mislead people away from the truth. | ||
:You mentioned that I cannot discern whether WMB’s gift was fake or real unless I talk to people who were the subject of the gift. Has spiritual discernment been reduced to interviews now??? Where then is the Holy Spirit I wonder? I tell you, any genuine Christian with the Spirit of Christ if you get them to listen to the Tapes of WMB they can tell you what Spirit was on the man. Even TL Osborne saw Christ in the man and called it his second vision of Jesus Christ. | :''You mentioned that I cannot discern whether WMB’s gift was fake or real unless I talk to people who were the subject of the gift. Has spiritual discernment been reduced to interviews now??? Where then is the Holy Spirit I wonder? I tell you, any genuine Christian with the Spirit of Christ if you get them to listen to the Tapes of WMB they can tell you what Spirit was on the man. Even TL Osborne saw Christ in the man and called it his second vision of Jesus Christ. | ||
::The Holy Spirit led me out of the message. T.L Osborne simply used WMB to help justify his own ministry. And to be honest, most charismatics are not particularly discerning. Whether T.L Osborn believed WMB or not is irrelevant. Walter Hollenweger and Alfred Pohl raised significant questions about WMB. Yet you ignore them. The problem is one of confirmation bias. You like those things which agree with your position but ignore those that highlight WMB's problem. I have looked at both and come to the understanding that WMB's lies and failed visions cannot be ignored. Yet you and your fellow message preachers choose ignorance. | ::The Holy Spirit led me out of the message. T.L Osborne simply used WMB to help justify his own ministry. And to be honest, most charismatics are not particularly discerning. Whether T.L Osborn believed WMB or not is irrelevant. Walter Hollenweger and Alfred Pohl raised significant questions about WMB. Yet you ignore them. The problem is one of confirmation bias. You like those things which agree with your position but ignore those that highlight WMB's problem. I have looked at both and come to the understanding that WMB's lies and failed visions cannot be ignored. Yet you and your fellow message preachers choose ignorance. | ||
:You quote “discernments were accurate but healings were rare”. With your 40 years that you spent in the message, have you forgotten that the Prophet said the discernment does NOT heal you? Be that as it may, we no longer go by just the testimonies of healings on tapes only. We have many healings and testimonies among believers which came after discernment BY TAPES. We have testimonies of the PILLAR OF FIRE that you dispute coming down on a tape being played. We have countless miracles that have taken place because of this message. SO YOUR EVIDENCES OF HEALINGS BEING RARE IS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS TO US. God has done proved to us the reality of this message. | :''You quote “discernments were accurate but healings were rare”. With your 40 years that you spent in the message, have you forgotten that the Prophet said the discernment does NOT heal you? Be that as it may, we no longer go by just the testimonies of healings on tapes only. We have many healings and testimonies among believers which came after discernment BY TAPES. We have testimonies of the PILLAR OF FIRE that you dispute coming down on a tape being played. We have countless miracles that have taken place because of this message. SO YOUR EVIDENCES OF HEALINGS BEING RARE IS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS TO US. God has done proved to us the reality of this message. | ||
:Finally, what has been achieved in your life. If WMB’s message caused it you should be worried. Jesus Christ changed my life. It is him who I serve and none other. | :''Finally, what has been achieved in your life. If WMB’s message caused it you should be worried. Jesus Christ changed my life. It is him who I serve and none other. | ||
::Whatever I have accomplished in my life was not because of WMB but rather the Holy Spirit working. I choose to give God the glory. Let God be true and every man a liar. | ::Whatever I have accomplished in my life was not because of WMB but rather the Holy Spirit working. I choose to give God the glory. Let God be true and every man a liar. | ||
:I find it strange that you cannot believe that God uses a MAN ministry to bring people to Himself. What happened to the Scriptures like Rom 10:14-15 – how shall they hear without a preacher; 1 Corin 1:21 – it pleased God through the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe; 1 Corin 11:1 – be ye followers of me even as I follow Christ. How can it be worrying to be brought to Christ through a message of WMB. Unfortunately in this case of what has been achieved in my life, I am the judge because it happened to me and I speak for myself. The Message of WMB brought me to my LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST and I am not ashamed to say were it not for WMB, I would not know Christ the way I know Him today. | :''I find it strange that you cannot believe that God uses a MAN ministry to bring people to Himself. What happened to the Scriptures like Rom 10:14-15 – how shall they hear without a preacher; 1 Corin 1:21 – it pleased God through the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe; 1 Corin 11:1 – be ye followers of me even as I follow Christ. How can it be worrying to be brought to Christ through a message of WMB. Unfortunately in this case of what has been achieved in my life, I am the judge because it happened to me and I speak for myself. The Message of WMB brought me to my LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST and I am not ashamed to say were it not for WMB, I would not know Christ the way I know Him today. | ||
:Finally Rod, we can debate about facts and evidences and visions etc, BUT the ultimate test is in the life. The bible tells us a tree is known by its fruits. My testimony is THE MESSAGE OF WMB PRODUCES A CHRISTIAN LIFE IN PEOPLE. That I am a witness of and NOBODY can tell me otherwise. I wonder what type of a life the so called people who left the message are now living? We hear of former deacons now alcoholics – lets give it time and by their fruits we shall know them. | :''Finally Rod, we can debate about facts and evidences and visions etc, BUT the ultimate test is in the life. The bible tells us a tree is known by its fruits. My testimony is THE MESSAGE OF WMB PRODUCES A CHRISTIAN LIFE IN PEOPLE. That I am a witness of and NOBODY can tell me otherwise. I wonder what type of a life the so called people who left the message are now living? We hear of former deacons now alcoholics – lets give it time and by their fruits we shall know them. | ||
==Listener comments== | ==Listener comments== | ||