Are Message Believers Christians?: Difference between revisions

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    Question: Are message believers Christians?
    Question: Are message believers Christians?


    Answer: Some are, some aren't.  You can tell which ones are Christians by one characteristic (see answer below)
    Answer: Some definitely aren't while other may be.  You can tell which ones are Christians by one characteristic (see answer below)


    =What defines a Christian?=
    =What defines a Christian?=
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    :''When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the '''first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear'''.<ref>Tyndale House Publishers, Holy Bible: New Living Translation (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 2015), Heb 8:13.</ref>
    :''When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the '''first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear'''.<ref>Tyndale House Publishers, Holy Bible: New Living Translation (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 2015), Heb 8:13.</ref>


    In fact, how we behaved became the most important thing in determining whether we were Christians:
    How we behave became the most important thing in determining whether we were Christians:


    :''If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.
    :''If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.
    :''If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day,  
    :''If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day,  
    :''and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
    ::''and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
    :''If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere.  
    :''If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere.  
    :''So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.<ref>Eugene H. Peterson, The Message: The Bible in Contemporary Language (Colorado Springs, CO: NavPress, 2005), 1 Co 13:1–3.</ref>
    :''So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.<ref>Eugene H. Peterson, The Message: The Bible in Contemporary Language (Colorado Springs, CO: NavPress, 2005), 1 Co 13:1–3.</ref>


    ''The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.''<ref>The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), Ga 5:6.</ref> .  Love is the only thing that matters.






    ==So what about message followers==
    ==So what about message followers?==


    Message believers generally feel more guilty about missing church than about how they treated someone at work.  They are more concerned about what God would do to you because of a moral failure than about what they did to the person they wronged.
    Message believers generally feel more guilty about missing church than about how they treated someone at work.  They are more concerned about what God would do to them because of a sin they might committ than about what they did to the person they wronged.


    The problem with the Nicene Council was not the issue identified by William Branham.  Rather, it was in the fact that Christianity went from being behavioral to creedal.  What became important was not how you behaved but what you believed.
    The problem with the Nicene Council was not the issue identified by William Branham.  Rather, it was in the fact that Christianity went from being behavioral to creedal.  What became important was not how you behaved but what you believed.  That was the tragedy of all of the Nicene Council - love lost.


    "And the tragedy of all this … [is that] love lost," Stanley told his congregation.
    Under Constantine and the Roman church, believing the wrong thing became a crime. Suddenly in Christianity, what you believed trumped how you behaved.
    Christians have largely reverted back to the ways of the Old Testament, blending the old "temple model" with Jesus' teachings.


    "Suddenly, believing the wrong thing was a crime," Stanley said. "Suddenly in Christianity, what you believed trumped how you behaved."
    Christianity became creedal.  There is no mention of love in the creeds.  In fact, there's no mention of behavior at all. You can subscribe to that creed and basically do anything you want.  And there was a reason the creeds were that way. It's because the creeds were generally signed off on by the emperor and the emperors had bad behaviors. So the church leaders who were being funded by the emperors had to be very careful what they put into the Christian creeds.But the entire law hangs on loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.<ref>Stanley, Andy -  from the sermon series "Brand:New"</ref>


    "Christianity almost immediately became creedal," he added, noting the creation of the Nicene Creed, among many other creeds already in existence.


    "There is no mention of love (in the creeds). In fact, there's no mention of behavior at all. You can subscribe to that creed and basically do anything you wanted. And there was a reason the creeds were that way. It's because the creeds were generally signed off on by the emperor and the emperors had bad behaviors. So the church leaders who were being funded by the emperors had to be very careful what they put into the Christian creeds.


    Stanley moved on to the 16th Century Protestant Reformation where Martin Luther wanted to reform the Church. During this time, the Scriptures became available to everyone as the printing press was created. But the Reformation splintered, Stanley noted, and now there are over 1,000 Protestant denominations because of different interpretations of the Bible.
    "Now you had more sacred places with sacred men with sacred texts telling everyone else how to live their lives and specifically what would grant them entrance to heaven," the Georgia pastor said. "And Protestants have been beating people over the head with the Bible ever since."
    In all of this, Stanley imagines Jesus and the Apostle Paul looking down from heaven and asking, "How did this happen?" and saying, "We couldn't have been any clearer."
    "I got them all together right at the end and I washed their stinking feet," Stanley imagines Jesus saying. "I told them this is an example, this is what you are to do to one another — as I have loved you, so you must love one another."
    "How could the new movement of Jesus with a new command and a new ethic of love that was to serve as the filter for all of their decisions, how could something so pure, so grassroots, so one another oriented become so temple?
    "The reason is because there is a little temple model in all of us … What you fear, what you see as sin, what you think God condemns has been taught to you in such a way our consciences have been shaped by it. Consequently, we continue to hold onto things that hold … the Church back."
    Stanley believes what fuels temple model thinking is the failure to truly embrace the Gospel. While Christians may believe Jesus Christ died for them, this has to get to their hearts.
    "Once you understand that Jesus and His Father are unequivocally for you, that there is no measure, no sin that puts you outside their love, grace has no … limits, that becomes the context … through which we understand the Scriptures," he stressed.
    He reminded the congregation about what Jesus said — the entire law hangs on loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.
    "Imagine if everyone realizes … God is fine with me," he said. "Now I must figure out how to be fine with other people so they can be fine with my Father in heaven."
    But those that say they follow Jesus have had a historical tendency to bring the old covenant back  into the new.
    <ref>Stanley, Andy -  from the sermon series "Brand:New"</ref>




    Latest revision as of 20:42, 1 January 2022

    Click on headings to expand them, or links to go to specific articles.

    Question: Are message believers Christians?

    Answer: Some definitely aren't while other may be. You can tell which ones are Christians by one characteristic (see answer below)

    What defines a Christian?

    How do you tell if someone is a Christian? According to Jesus, there is a simple test:

    “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”[1]
    “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.  And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.  And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.  But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back."[2]

    But many Christians have veered from Jesus' command to love and become more focused on a set of beliefs, more concerned about themselves and their standing with God than about other people.

    The church that Jesus founded was to be a movement love would replace law-keeping:

    When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.[3]

    How we behave became the most important thing in determining whether we were Christians:

    If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.
    If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day,
    and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
    If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere.
    So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.[4]

    The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.[5] . Love is the only thing that matters.


    So what about message followers?

    Message believers generally feel more guilty about missing church than about how they treated someone at work. They are more concerned about what God would do to them because of a sin they might committ than about what they did to the person they wronged.

    The problem with the Nicene Council was not the issue identified by William Branham. Rather, it was in the fact that Christianity went from being behavioral to creedal. What became important was not how you behaved but what you believed. That was the tragedy of all of the Nicene Council - love lost.

    Under Constantine and the Roman church, believing the wrong thing became a crime. Suddenly in Christianity, what you believed trumped how you behaved.

    Christianity became creedal. There is no mention of love in the creeds. In fact, there's no mention of behavior at all. You can subscribe to that creed and basically do anything you want. And there was a reason the creeds were that way. It's because the creeds were generally signed off on by the emperor and the emperors had bad behaviors. So the church leaders who were being funded by the emperors had to be very careful what they put into the Christian creeds.But the entire law hangs on loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.[6]




    Footnotes

    1. ↑ The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), Jn 13:34–35.
    2. ↑ The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), Lk 6:32–35.
    3. ↑ Tyndale House Publishers, Holy Bible: New Living Translation (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 2015), Heb 8:13.
    4. ↑ Eugene H. Peterson, The Message: The Bible in Contemporary Language (Colorado Springs, CO: NavPress, 2005), 1 Co 13:1–3.
    5. ↑ The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), Ga 5:6.
    6. ↑ Stanley, Andy - from the sermon series "Brand:New"


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