Question 2 (BM2) - Was William Branham a prophet?: Difference between revisions

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=BTS 2 reply=
=BTS 2 reply=


I will respond a point at a time as needs responding.
I will respond a point at a time as needs responding.


We should first address Branham’s “Kentucky English”… Branham told us this about his young life:
We should first address Branham’s “Kentucky English”… Branham told us this about his young life:


When I was a boy, my father died. I had ten children to take care of, and I had to work and support my mother and the children. Then since the Lord has sent me out, why, I have–haven’t had a chance.” (53-1129)
When I was a boy, my father died. I had ten children to take care of, and I had to work and support my mother and the children. Then since the Lord has sent me out, why, I have–haven’t had a chance.” (53-1129)


I said, “Yes, sir, that’s right.” I said–I said, “I know my grammar’s awful.” I said, ”I’m sorry about that.” I said, “I was raised in a family of ten, and I was the oldest. And my daddy died, and I had to take care of ten children, and my mother…” I said, “I didn’t get a chance to get an education.”  55-1001
I said, “Yes, sir, that’s right.” I said–I said, “I know my grammar’s awful.” I said, ”I’m sorry about that.” I said, “I was raised in a family of ten, and I was the oldest. And my daddy died, and I had to take care of ten children, and my mother…” I said, “I didn’t get a chance to get an education.”  55-1001


Branham told this heart wrenching story several times, not just the two that I put here.  So, let’s discover the truth.  Charles Branham died November 30, 1936.  Now, depending on which of the four birthdates which Branham provided at different times in his life on different documents including two marriage licenses, William Branham was between 27 and 29 years old. He was at the time married to Hope and had two children.  Looking back on Branham’s quotes, which education was it that Branham missed out on exactly?
Branham told this heart wrenching story several times, not just the two that I put here.  So, let’s discover the truth.  Charles Branham died November 30, 1936.  Now, depending on which of the four birthdates which Branham provided at different times in his life on different documents including two marriage licenses, William Branham was between 27 and 29 years old. He was at the time married to Hope and had two children.  Looking back on Branham’s quotes, which education was it that Branham missed out on exactly?


And here is one of our main points.  When you read Branham’s sermons, even his life story, you can’t tell when Branham is telling the truth!  Clearly in this case he was lying yet again.  Tell me again about his “Kentucky English?”
And here is one of our main points.  When you read Branham’s sermons, even his life story, you can’t tell when Branham is telling the truth!  Clearly in this case he was lying yet again.  Tell me again about his “Kentucky English?”


But I digress.  Back to your email.
But I digress.  Back to your email.


One of the interesting things which you have said now a couple of times is that Jesus spoke to people who understood and others stumbled at His Words because they were “intellectual”.  When you mis-speak about scripture like that, it is important to clarify the record for you.  Here are SOME of the things which are spoken in God’s Word concerning wisdom and the knowledge of the Word of the Lord:
One of the interesting things which you have said now a couple of times is that Jesus spoke to people who understood and others stumbled at His Words because they were “intellectual”.  When you mis-speak about scripture like that, it is important to clarify the record for you.  Here are SOME of the things which are spoken in God’s Word concerning wisdom and the knowledge of the Word of the Lord:


Acts 17:10-11 (HCSB)
Acts 17:10-11 (HCSB)
10 As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas off to Berea. On arrival, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
10 As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas off to Berea. On arrival, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 The people here were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, since they welcomed the message with eagerness and examined the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
11 The people here were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, since they welcomed the message with eagerness and examined the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.


1 John 4:1 (HCSB)
1 John 4:1 (HCSB)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


Proverbs 1:2-7 (HCSB)
Proverbs 1:2-7 (HCSB)
2 For learning what wisdom and discipline are; for understanding insightful sayings;
2 For learning what wisdom and discipline are; for understanding insightful sayings;
3 for receiving wise instruction ?in? righteousness, justice, and integrity;
3 for receiving wise instruction ?in? righteousness, justice, and integrity;
4 for teaching shrewdness to the inexperienced, knowledge and discretion to a young man—
4 for teaching shrewdness to the inexperienced, knowledge and discretion to a young man—
5 a wise man will listen and increase his learning, and a discerning man will obtain guidance—
5 a wise man will listen and increase his learning, and a discerning man will obtain guidance—
6 for understanding a proverb or a parable, the words of the wise, and their riddles.
6 for understanding a proverb or a parable, the words of the wise, and their riddles.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and discipline.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and discipline.


Proverbs 18:15 (HCSB)
Proverbs 18:15 (HCSB)
15 The mind of the discerning acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks it.
15 The mind of the discerning acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks it.


Proverbs 15:14 (HCSB)
Proverbs 15:14 (HCSB)
14 A discerning mind seeks knowledge, but the mouth of fools feeds on foolishness.
14 A discerning mind seeks knowledge, but the mouth of fools feeds on foolishness.


Proverbs 2:1-6 (HCSB)
Proverbs 2:1-6 (HCSB)


1 My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you,
1 My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you,
2 listening closely to wisdom and directing your heart to understanding;
2 listening closely to wisdom and directing your heart to understanding;
3 furthermore, if you call out to insight and lift your voice to understanding,
3 furthermore, if you call out to insight and lift your voice to understanding,
4 if you seek it like silver and search for it like hidden treasure,
4 if you seek it like silver and search for it like hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and discover the knowledge of God.
5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and discover the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.


To suggest that wisdom and the Knowledge of the Word of the Lord is a bad thing is foolishness, just as scripture says.
To suggest that wisdom and the Knowledge of the Word of the Lord is a bad thing is foolishness, just as scripture says.


Again, I digress.  Back to your email.
Again, I digress.  Back to your email.


The “Wide Open-Door Policy” as you coined it is not ours.  These are the Words of Jesus Christ:
The “Wide Open-Door Policy” as you coined it is not ours.  These are the Words of Jesus Christ:


Matthew 28:18-20 (HCSB)  
Matthew 28:18-20 (HCSB)  
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19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,  
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,  
20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”


Notice that Jesus here tells his disciples to “MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS”.  We see the Apostles going to the then-known world and evangelizing the Word of God.
Notice that Jesus here tells his disciples to “MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS”.  We see the Apostles going to the then-known world and evangelizing the Word of God.


We see people like those in Berea who took this very seriously.  We saw previously how the Apostle Paul spoke about Jesus being HEIR OF ALL THINGS, not just a couple of things:
We see people like those in Berea who took this very seriously.  We saw previously how the Apostle Paul spoke about Jesus being HEIR OF ALL THINGS, not just a couple of things:


Hebrews 1:1-3 (HCSB)  
Hebrews 1:1-3 (HCSB)  
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2 In these last days, He has spoken to us by ⌊His⌋ Son. God has appointed Him heir of all things and made the universe through Him.  
2 In these last days, He has spoken to us by ⌊His⌋ Son. God has appointed Him heir of all things and made the universe through Him.  
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact expression of His nature, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact expression of His nature, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.


We see the Apostles here invite ANYONE WHO BELIEVES to become a follower of Christ:
We see the Apostles here invite ANYONE WHO BELIEVES to become a follower of Christ:


Acts 16:31 (HCSB)  
Acts 16:31 (HCSB)  
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”


This isn’t exclusivity, this is as “open door” as you can get.  If you reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, then certainly you aren’t saved.  And we are aware of that.  But where did Christ CLOSE THE DOOR??  That bears no resemblance to the Great Commission which Christ gave to His disciples.
This isn’t exclusivity, this is as “open door” as you can get.  If you reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, then certainly you aren’t saved.  And we are aware of that.  But where did Christ CLOSE THE DOOR??  That bears no resemblance to the Great Commission which Christ gave to His disciples.


Now, I understand why Branham taught “exclusivity”.  He has to.  There are those who will accept Christ, but will reject Branham’s claim to God’s Authority based on his inability to tell the truth, his teaching that which directly opposes scripture, and prophesying that which does not come to pass.  And we have seen how scripture deals with that.  And to teach exclusivity creates a “second class” of Christian which doesn’t exist.  The verse I attached above shows ONE formula for Christianity.  Just one.  Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you SHALL BE SAVED!
Now, I understand why Branham taught “exclusivity”.  He has to.  There are those who will accept Christ, but will reject Branham’s claim to God’s Authority based on his inability to tell the truth, his teaching that which directly opposes scripture, and prophesying that which does not come to pass.  And we have seen how scripture deals with that.  And to teach exclusivity creates a “second class” of Christian which doesn’t exist.  The verse I attached above shows ONE formula for Christianity.  Just one.  Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you SHALL BE SAVED!


The things which you quote in this email which you sent are pure “message” and show almost a disdain for scripture.  They are unscriptural and unsupported by scripture.
The things which you quote in this email which you sent are pure “message” and show almost a disdain for scripture.  They are unscriptural and unsupported by scripture.


By the way, it wasn’t our “little twist” to say that Branham proclaimed that John cried for joy.  We didn’t say that.  We didn’t twist a thing.  Those are Branham’s own words.
By the way, it wasn’t our “little twist” to say that Branham proclaimed that John cried for joy.  We didn’t say that.  We didn’t twist a thing.  Those are Branham’s own words.


This email of yours is a sorry attempt to tell us that I am uneducated and ill-suited to speak about God’s Word.  But you haven’t shown, not one instance, that what we have pointed out about William Branham and his lack of qualification as a prophet of God is untrue.  We show you scriptural definitions about how a prophet qualifies, we show you how Branham fails in the examination as a prophet, and you come to us with OUR lack of understanding.
This email of yours is a sorry attempt to tell us that I am uneducated and ill-suited to speak about God’s Word.  But you haven’t shown, not one instance, that what we have pointed out about William Branham and his lack of qualification as a prophet of God is untrue.  We show you scriptural definitions about how a prophet qualifies, we show you how Branham fails in the examination as a prophet, and you come to us with OUR lack of understanding.


Perhaps we could get back to the point of this interaction:  DOES WILLIAM BRANHAM QUALIFY AS A PROPHET OF GOD?  OR WAS WILLIAM BRANHAM ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE A FALSE PROPHET?
Perhaps we could get back to the point of this interaction:  DOES WILLIAM BRANHAM QUALIFY AS A PROPHET OF GOD?  OR WAS WILLIAM BRANHAM ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE A FALSE PROPHET?


You have yet to answer the VERY FIRST QUESTION which was brought to you.  Did the Municipal Bridge Vision come to pass as Branham stated using THUS SAITH THE LORD?  Or did it fail?
You have yet to answer the VERY FIRST QUESTION which was brought to you.  Did the Municipal Bridge Vision come to pass as Branham stated using THUS SAITH THE LORD?  Or did it fail?


As in the instance of the examples that we have shown, DID BRANHAM TEACH THAT WHICH DIRECTLY OPPOSES SCRIPTURE?  And finally, DID WILLIAM BRANHAM LIE IN THE NAME OF THE LORD WHILE CLAIMING TO SPEAK WITH GOD’S AUTHORITY?
As in the instance of the examples that we have shown, DID BRANHAM TEACH THAT WHICH DIRECTLY OPPOSES SCRIPTURE?  And finally, DID WILLIAM BRANHAM LIE IN THE NAME OF THE LORD WHILE CLAIMING TO SPEAK WITH GOD’S AUTHORITY?


You see, all three of these things are so.  And we see in this response that Branham couldn’t even be honest about the events in his life which have NO BEARING on the Word of God, but speak to his general credibility.
You see, all three of these things are so.  And we see in this response that Branham couldn’t even be honest about the events in his life which have NO BEARING on the Word of God, but speak to his general credibility.


   
What this really comes down to is simple… when you read the sermons of William Branham given all of the false statements, teaching which is unscriptural, and failed visions and prophecies, can you know without confusion that which is of God? We know that God is not confused.  We know that God’s true prophets throughout scripture were not confused.  Why is it that Branham is to be given a pass for being confused?  He teaches both sides of many issues very frequently in his sermons.  His teaching is in many many cases at best extra-scriptural and worst anti-scriptural.


What this really comes down to is simple… when you read the sermons of William Branham given all of the false statements, teaching which is unscriptural, and failed visions and prophecies, can you know without confusion that which is of God?  We know that God is not confused.  We know that God’s true prophets throughout scripture were not confused.  Why is it that Branham is to be given a pass for being confused? He teaches both sides of many issues very frequently in his sermons.  His teaching is in many many cases at best extra-scriptural and worst anti-scriptural.
Again, this isn’t about us.  This is about not giving any scriptural support for Branham being a prophet of God.  And if he isn’t a prophet of God, then are people wasting their time basing their salvation, their “exclusive” salvation, on doctrine which is entirely questionable and put forth by someone who doesn’t qualify as God’s representative?


   
Perhaps at some point we can even speak about the “seals”, or what is commonly referred to since the 1st century AD as “dispensationalism”. Perhaps we can speak about whether Irenaeus, the very person who Branham claimed was a “prophet messenger” tell us in his writings that this doctrine is heresy.  So, maybe we can ask the question, was God confused between the 1st century and the 20th century?  Perhaps we might discover why Branham’s “special revelation from God” regarding the seven church ages was nearly word for word plagiarism of a book written in 1918 by a man named Clarence Larkin who also taught dispensationalism, and who also claimed to be the “Elijah spirit”.  But again, I digress.


Again, this isn’t about usThis is about not giving any scriptural support for Branham being a prophet of God.  And if he isn’t a prophet of God, then are people wasting their time basing their salvation, their “exclusive” salvation, on doctrine which is entirely questionable and put forth by someone who doesn’t qualify as God’s representative?
I encourage you to please answer the first questionBefore we go any further, let’s work at figuring out if William Branham really is a prophet of God.  We don’t do this by repeating his extra- and anti-scriptural nonsense.  We do this by examining what the characteristics of a prophet of God are, and examining whether Branham possesses those characteristics.  Remember our very first exchange when I asked what your scriptural definition of a prophet is?  That is important to understand Branham.  And the rest of this argument over who has the better understanding of scripture, or who is more “plain spoken” versus studied, is just smoke screen and diversion from the qualifications of William Branham to speak with the Authority of God.


   
So, again, let’s get back to the first question. Did the Municipal Bridge vision as given several times by Branham and repeated by others who heard it directly from William Branham actually come to pass?


Perhaps at some point we can even speak about the “seals”, or what is commonly referred to since the 1st century AD as “dispensationalism”.  Perhaps we can speak about whether Irenaeus, the very person who Branham claimed was a “prophet messenger” tell us in his writings that this doctrine is heresy.  So, maybe we can ask the question, was God confused between the 1st century and the 20th century?  Perhaps we might discover why Branham’s “special revelation from God” regarding the seven church ages was nearly word for word plagiarism of a book written in 1918 by a man named Clarence Larkin who also taught dispensationalism, and who also claimed to be the “Elijah spirit”.  But again, I digress.
I sincerely hope that we can get to the point of this interaction at some point in the near future.


As always, I await your response.


I encourage you to please answer the first question.  Before we go any further, let’s work at figuring out if William Branham really is a prophet of God.  We don’t do this by repeating his extra- and anti-scriptural nonsense.  We do this by examining what the characteristics of a prophet of God are, and examining whether Branham possesses those characteristics.  Remember our very first exchange when I asked what your scriptural definition of a prophet is?  That is important to understand Branham.  And the rest of this argument over who has the better understanding of scripture, or who is more “plain spoken” versus studied, is just smoke screen and diversion from the qualifications of William Branham to speak with the Authority of God.
BTS 2


==Clarification by BTS 2==


So, again, let’s get back to the first question.  Did the Municipal Bridge vision as given several times by Branham and repeated by others who heard it directly from William Branham actually come to pass?
I mis-spoke, and I wanted to clarify my statement…


   
Irenaeus was not the FIRST which Branham identified as a messenger during his exposition of dispensationalism… he was actually the second. So, my apologies for the mis-statement.  I am glad to have clarified this for you.


I sincerely hope that we can get to the point of this interaction at some point in the near future.
BTS 2




As always, I await your response.


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