BelieveTheSign

Question 4 (BM2) - The Trinity and other issues: Difference between revisions

Page Discussion

Question 4 (BM2) - The Trinity and other issues (view source)

Revision as of 18:58, 3 March 2019

13,800 bytes added ,  5 years ago
→‎Thursday, February 28, 2019 5:48 PM
Line 605: Line 605:


Brother ABM2
Brother ABM2
=Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 2:48 AM=
Dear ABM2,
Your responses about what Branham said are ridiculous.  You can choose to say he didn’t say those things, but that doesn’t make it so.
By the way, you didn’t catch what I said about the Spirit of God in what I wrote, or didn’t you care to read it?
I will respond, however, to ONE of the issues you raised.
==Astrology==
I say......In the 1st place of TRUTH....Scripture declares that the heavenly bodies were created by GOD...for SIGNS....TIMES and SEASONS. In the book of Job....GOD taught that the constellations have an influence on the earth. In the below THUS SAITH THE LORD....GOD speaks to Job concerning the MAZZAROTH...(Zodiac) and the influences of other heavenly constellations. We can't help what the devil has done to GOD's original prophetic sign giver....by twisting it into astrology. GOD has also given us the Bible and the devil and his seed..... has done the same thing to the Bible ....with the scores of interpretations supposedly based on it. Again...sorry for your previous ignorance of Scripture....now you know something you can grow in understanding by ......seeing :)
Here we see that once again you are not only confused but rather misinformed.
The Book of Job speaks about CONSTELLATIONS in the heavens, not the ZODIAC as I will demonstrate here.
You see, there are actually two issues which you raised.  The first is ASTRONOMY… that is the study of the make-up and the movement of the stars in heaven.  This is real science.  WE KNOW that God created the HEAVENS AND THE EARTH… WE KNOW that He ordered the stars and tells them where to go.  This we are clear about.  So, let’s be clear.  There is NO issue concerning ASTRONOMY.
What Branham refers to, and what he SAID in his quote was ZODIAC.  Now, let’s differentiate the Zodiac from what I just mentioned.  The Signs of the Zodiac are the twelve formations which are used in the practice of ASTROLOGY which are used to predict the future and foretell people’s lives.
Notice now, and be sure to catch this… one is ASTRONOMY, a real science, and the other is ASTROLOGY, divination of future events using the ZODIAC, those signs to which William Branham referred.
Surely, and I mean SURELY, you have some understanding of the difference.  Or perhaps you just don’t and you truly are not obstinate but rather ignorant and silly.  I would prefer that you are being obstinate.  You do, after all lead a church of people as their pastor.  Certainly you can speak to the differences.
Let’s look at the differences in the Bible…
===ASTRONOMY===
Genesis 1:1 (HCSB)
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:14-19 (HCSB)
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night. They will serve as signs for festivals and for days and years.
15 They will be lights in the expanse of the sky to provide light on the earth.” And it was so.
16 God made the two great lights—the greater light to have dominion over the day and the lesser light to have dominion over the night—as well as the stars.
17 God placed them in the expanse of the sky to provide light on the earth,
18 to dominate the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 Evening came and then morning: the fourth day.
Judges 5:20 (HCSB)
20 The stars fought from the heavens; the stars fought with Sisera from their courses.
Job 9:7-10 (HCSB)
7 He commands the sun not to shine and seals off the stars.
8 He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.
9 He makes ⌊the stars⌋: the Bear, Orion, the Pleiades, and the constellations of the southern sky.
10 He does great and unsearchable things, wonders without number.
Job 38:31-33 (HCSB)
31 Can you fasten the chains of the Pleiades or loosen the belt of Orion?
32 Can you bring out the constellations in their season and lead the Bear and her cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of heaven? Can you impose its authority on earth?
Psalm 19:1-6 (HCSB)
1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.
2 Day after day they pour out speech; night after night they communicate knowledge.
3 There is no speech; there are no words; their voice is not heard.
4 Their message has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens He has pitched a tent for the sun.
5 It is like a groom coming from the bridal chamber; it rejoices like an athlete running a course.
6 It rises from one end of the heavens and circles to their other end; nothing is hidden from its heat.
Psalm 136:5-9 (HCSB)
5 He made the heavens skillfully. His love is eternal.
6 He spread the land on the waters. His love is eternal.
7 He made the great lights: His love is eternal.
8 the sun to rule by day, His love is eternal.
9 the moon and stars to rule by night. His love is eternal.
Psalm 147:4 (HCSB)
4 He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them.
Isaiah 40:26 (HCSB)
26 Look up and see: who created these? He brings out the starry host by number; He calls all of them by name. Because of His great power and strength, not one of them is missing.
Ezekiel 32:7-8 (HCSB)
7 When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars. I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light.
8 I will darken all the shining lights in the heavens over you, and will bring darkness on your land. ⌊This is⌋ the declaration of the Lord GOD.
Jeremiah 31:35-37 (HCSB)
35 This is what the LORD says: The One who gives the sun for light by day, the fixed order of moon and stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea and makes its waves roar— Yahweh of Hosts is His name:
36 If this fixed order departs from My presence— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— then also Israel’s descendants will cease to be a nation before Me forever.
37 This is what the LORD says: If the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below explored, I will reject all of Israel’s descendants because of all they have done— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration.
Jesus Himself said this:
Matthew 24:35 (HCSB)
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
Luke 21:25 (HCSB)
25 “Then there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and there will be anguish on the earth among nations bewildered by the roaring sea and waves.”
All of these scriptural references speak to what we know today as ASTRONOMY.
===Astrology===
Now, let’s review what Branham told us:
“God's wrote three Bibles: one, the Zodiac, one in the pyramids, one on paper. Now, He's writing His first, the Zodiac. It starts off with a virgin, ends up with Leo the lion: Jesus' first coming and His second coming. If we had time to run down through it, you'd see it.”  53-0509, The Pillar Of Fire
“God wrote three Bibles. One of them was the Zodiac in the skies.”  60-0522E, Adoption #4
“Now, I don't say this now… I don't want you to quote this back out among your people, but you see, everything in the Bible travels in three—a three making one. Now, like in the Bible, it is written in here that… You know God wrote three Bibles. Do you believe that? He wrote one in the sky, one in the pyramid, the other one on paper. Now, we know that they make a ouija board out of the pyramid; they make a ouija board out of the Zodiac; they make a ouija board out of the Bible. But that don't hinder It's truth; It's truths are just exactly the same.”  61-0318, Abraham's Covenant Confirmed
“God's first Bible was in the skies, the Zodiac; it starts off and runs every age.”  64-0802, The Future Home Of The Heavenly Bridegroom And The Earthly Bride
Branham here refers to what we know as ASTROLOGY, the divination of future events by looking at the 12 ZODIAC signs.
And really?? Ouija board is TRUTH??  How does one justify what Banham said here, particularly when we know what the Bible tells us about divining the future using the ZODIAC?
Isaiah 47:12-14 (HCSB)
12 So take your stand with your spells and your many sorceries, which you have wearied yourself with from your youth. Perhaps you will be able to succeed; perhaps you will inspire terror!
13 You are worn out with your many consultations. So let them stand and save you— the astrologers, who observe the stars, who predict monthly what will happen to you.
14 Look, they are like stubble; fire burns them up. They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame. This is not a coal for warming themselves, or a fire to sit beside!
NOTICE the biblical word here is ASTROLOGERS as opposed to ASTRONOMERS!
Your defense of William Branham, while energetic, is just silly.  No, really… it is.  You suggest that when he spoke of ASTROLOGY, THE ZODIAC, and when he spoke about the OUIJA BOARD being truth that he was speaking on behalf of, or with the authority of GOD?  Unbelievable.  Again… please please please tell me that you don’t support the ZODIAC as being scriptural, or OF GOD and teach it to your assembly!
Let’s look at another book that Branham would not approve of… or at least that Branham taught something which is in direct opposition to the Book of Jeremiah:
Branham taught several times over many years about seven church ages.  In fact, Branham wrote a book on this topic.  Branham tells us that this book was a “special revelation” to him alone:
"To the best of my revelation that was give to me by God and foretold that it would be done, this is the Truth of the four horse riders to the best of my knowledge."  William Branham, March 21, 1963, The Fourth Seal
So, here’s the issue:
Branham was not even the latest in a long history of people who have claimed a “special revelation” about this topic.  Now, I know it may be too much to expect you to know this, but it is important.  You can go all the way back to Irenaeus, you may remember him… he’s the guy that Branham claimed was the Second Prophet Messenger… well, Irenaeus tells us this about the this idea:
“Inasmuch, therefore, as the opinions of certain [orthodox persons] are derived from heretical discourses, they are both ignorant of God’s dispensations, and of the mystery of the resurrection of the just, and of the [earthly] kingdom which is the commencement of incorruption, by means of which kingdom those who shall be worthy are accustomed gradually to partake of the divine nature; and it is necessary to tell them respecting those things, that it behooves the righteous first to receive the promise of the inheritance which God promised to the fathers, and to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation which is renovated, and that the judgment should take place afterwards.”  (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXXII, section 1.)
In other words, Irenaeus tells us that dispensationalism as Branham taught it is indeed a “heresy”.  No, let me ask you… was God confused when he spoke to Irenaeus?  How does one prophet messenger tell us that dispensationalism is heresy, but Branham who claimed to have been God’s prophet messenger tells us that it is the basis of his prophetic ministry?  And isn’t dispensationalism the keystone of Branham’s achievements?  Many people, you I believe among them, tell us that we should not take much stock in what Branham said PRIOR TO HIS RECEIVING HIS SPECIAL REVELATION CONCERNING THE “SEALS”.
But let’s not go back as far as Irenaeus.  Let’s look just a bit further back than Branham.  Here’s what we find… Branham plagiarized nearly word for word for his book from a book previously written by a guy by the name of Clarence Larkin.  Larkin was ALSO a dispensationalist.  And the comparison of the two books is amazing… they are nearly identical.  I include a link for your review - [[Plagiarism]]
Larkin was just the one prior to Branham who had this “special revelation”, as did Alexander Dowie before him, and many many many others going all the way back to the time of Irenaeus.
What we know from scripture however, and returning to the Book of Jeremiah, is that God considers plagiarism to be a dubious practice.  At least this is what God’s Word tells us.  God opposes plagiarism, the stealing of someone else’s work when you call it a revelation from God:
Jeremiah 23:30-32 (HCSB)
30 Therefore, take note! I am against the prophets”—the LORD’s declaration—“who steal My words from each other.
31 I am against the prophets”—the LORD’s declaration—“who use their own tongues to make a declaration.
32 I am against those who prophesy false dreams”—the LORD’s declaration—“telling them and leading My people astray with their falsehoods and their boasting. It was not I who sent or commanded them, and they are of no benefit at all to these people”—⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration.
Now, I have clearly defined ASTRONOMY and ASTROLOGY for you, I have properly placed ASTRONOMY in scripture, just as you attempted to associate Branham’s words with ASTRONOMY.  They are not, by the way, they refer to ASTROLOGY, THE ZODIAC.  Remember the very word which Branham used, THE ZODIAC.  Not once, mind you, he used this word several times.  And the ouija board?  Really?
And then I continued to demonstrate where Branham is opposed by scripture in two ways:
1)  He disagrees with someone who he himself proclaimed as God’s prophet messenger as it relates to dispensationalism, and
2)  He plagiarized a book written by someone on the topic, calling it his very own “special revelation” from God directly to him.
Can’t wait for your next insightful response.
BTS2


{{Bottom of Page}}
{{Bottom of Page}}
Retrieved from "http:///index.php?title=Special:MobileDiff/23753"