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Question 4 (BM2) - The Trinity and other issues: Difference between revisions

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Question 4 (BM2) - The Trinity and other issues (view source)

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(Created page with "{{Top of Page}} {{BM2 Q&A}} =Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 5:42 PM= Dear ABM2, Your latest email was sort of a shotgun blast of ideas, sort of like a BB bouncing around in a box car....")
 
 
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I say.....My responses were based directly on your statements...which also were filled with misstatements along with mischaracterizations. I will base this response on your statements...so it could also be lengthy.
I say.....My responses were based directly on your statements...which also were filled with misstatements along with mischaracterizations. I will base this response on your statements...so it could also be lengthy.


To begin with...you didn't directly address the questions I posed concerning Abraham....a noted Prophet of GOD and his grievous errors.....progressively followed by GOD's gentle correction and reassertion of the promise.
To begin with...you didn't directly address the questions I posed concerning Abraham....a noted Prophet of GOD and his grievous errors.....progressively followed by GOD's gentle correction and reassertion of the promise.


You sidestep to Gideon...who is not in the line of Prophets and then ramble about the fleecing incident. That my friend....has no connection with Abraham losing his Prophet of GOD position...status or place for disobeying..... denying and laughing in the Face of GOD. Gideon did none of those things...so I don't think comparing camels to spaceships is relevant to the subject. Besides..... even Gideon's position as a Judge was progressive.... in every sense of the word! He was guided by progressive instructions to his ultimate victories.....PERIOD! The point of the subject had to do with what constitutes a Prophet of GOD and whether his errors.... disqualify him from being GOD's Prophet.
You sidestep to Gideon...who is not in the line of Prophets and then ramble about the fleecing incident. That my friend....has no connection with Abraham losing his Prophet of GOD position...status or place for disobeying..... denying and laughing in the Face of GOD. Gideon did none of those things...so I don't think comparing camels to spaceships is relevant to the subject. Besides..... even Gideon's position as a Judge was progressive.... in every sense of the word! He was guided by progressive instructions to his ultimate victories.....PERIOD! The point of the subject had to do with what constitutes a Prophet of GOD and whether his errors.... disqualify him from being GOD's Prophet.


==Progressive Revelation==
==Progressive Revelation==
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You use his statements and then put your spin on them and I read the same statements and understand exactly what he meant. Not one place can you show us a teaching...where he taught the Denominational TRINITARIAN version of the Godhead....with 3 separate persons making one god.
You use his statements and then put your spin on them and I read the same statements and understand exactly what he meant. Not one place can you show us a teaching...where he taught the Denominational TRINITARIAN version of the Godhead....with 3 separate persons making one god.


If I said....depending on the audience being dealt with..... that GOD the Father was the 1st...2nd and 3rd Person of the Godhead...it would be totally correct....if the person listening knew what I meant by the statement. To another filled with the spirit of criticism....it would be confusion.  It's just a matter of placing the attributes of the one person GOD...... in the correct manifestation and/or timeframe.  Personally.....I think you are somewhat void concerning the Revelation of Godhead.... as taught all the way through by Brother Branham. Otherwise you wouldn't use your spin on his wording...trying to make him say something that he didn't believe.
If I said....depending on the audience being dealt with..... that GOD the Father was the 1st...2nd and 3rd Person of the Godhead...it would be totally correct....if the person listening knew what I meant by the statement. To another filled with the spirit of criticism....it would be confusion.  It's just a matter of placing the attributes of the one person GOD...... in the correct manifestation and/or timeframe.  Personally.....I think you are somewhat void concerning the Revelation of Godhead.... as taught all the way through by Brother Branham. Otherwise you wouldn't use your spin on his wording...trying to make him say something that he didn't believe.


Can you please show us where what we showed you wasn’t in what Branham taught?  He taught those things, right??  Unbelievable.
Can you please show us where what we showed you wasn’t in what Branham taught?  He taught those things, right??  Unbelievable.
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ABM2
ABM2
=Thursday, February 28, 2019 5:48 PM=
Brother BTS2,
==The Doctrine of the Trinity==
You said concerning the quote below >>>> Wait, WHAT?!?!?!? Clearly you didn’t read what was emailed to you. Branham said these very words: Are you suggesting that Branham didn’t speak these words???  He tells us here that a TRIUNE doctrine is “hatched out of hell”, as he suggests here:
60-0925 THAT.DAY.ON.CALVARY "Where do you get that triune, pagan doctrine? Out of a catechism, not out of the Bible. The word "trinity" is not even mentioned in the whole Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. There's no such a thing. There is no such a thing as a trinitarian god."
I say.......If you had the least bit of the ability to understand what he is referring to in specificity....we wouldn't be having this exchange based on this simple to understand subject matter. He...in the above quote.... is specifically referring to the use of the DOCTRINAL ASPECT.... of the terminology "TRIUNE"....as applied (taught).... by the Trinitarian/Triune concept of 3 separate PERSONS in Godhead! I thought we covered that simple to understand use of a word..... in my previous exchange. Don't you remember that we explained that the word "TRINITY"...... can be applied either to GOD being three attributes of ONE PERSON ......or as a "TRINITY" concept .....of 3 separate persons.
Again...if I may repeat myself to anchor the point. Brother Branham is SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO THE WORD "TRIUNE".... AS IS TAUGHT (BASTARDIZED)..... BY THE TRINITARIAN CONCEPT OF 3 PERSONS!!!!!! Why that is so hard for you to grasp...is beyond me! 1st grade Example.....a TRICYCLE is one bike...with a distinction of having 3 wheels. It IS NOT 3 different bikes....get it. Someone could use the same word "TRICYCLE and say it had a "TRINITY" of wheels...or "TRIUNE" wheels and then say because the word "TRIUNE" or "TRINITY" was used to describe the TRICYCLE....insist that "TRIUNE" meant 3 separate bikes. The same word or words....used in different applications of concept. One is bastardized and the other is perfectly correct.
Just like Scripture.....to some it is not given..... to understand the original intent contained in the Words. That's why there are so many interpretations to any given sets of words.....written in Scripture. Without DIVINELY given eyesight.....most will read and study and never come to the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH!
==What did William Branham teach?==
You said >>>> Can you please show us where what we showed you wasn’t in what Branham taught?  He taught those things, right??  Unbelievable.
I say.....You used the words he said and then put your interpretation/spin to them...no differently than the serpent did in the garden to Eve.....or the Pharisees did in JESUS' day. The serpent used GOD's words and then reinterpreted them to Eve...twisting the original intent.... away from its true original meaning. When satan confronted the LORD JESUS....he used Scripture..... in an attempt to trap Him. Every quote you used..... in the context of what I know Brother Branham believed and taught....is perfectly correct. You are twisting it out of context!!!!
Referring to what I said previously.....the Triune being that we call GOD....is MODALIST (MONOTHEIST).... IN BEING and MANIFOLD IN MANIFESTATIONS. One Spirit....One being...one LORD. The terminology of TRIUNE or TRINITY..... used within the applied limits of ONE PERSON with 3 major attributes/objectives..... is exactly correct. Using the same words and applying them to describe 3 separate Persons in Godhead .....is a doctrine out of the pit of hell. If you don't have the ability to see the difference....I really feel sorry for you as a claimed minister.
You said >>>> Wait, WHAT?!?!?!?!? Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit was there in the Garden of Gethsemane??  Really?  WOW!!!  It was Jesus who was there, Jesus who was God manifest on earth as a human being.  The Holy Spirit which was promised by Jesus Christ came later…
I say.....Even the Prophets of the Old Testament had the Holy Ghost. I am concerned about your limited conclusions.... in searching for Scriptural Truth..... Brother.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost was given in the Old Testament to those whom GOD chose to give it to. John the Baptist ......was baptized with the Holy Ghost....in his mother's womb.
When JESUS..... in Spirit form.... came back on the day of Pentecost....He made the Holy Ghost available to all that seek Him....even to those who are not true believers. The rain falls on both the Just and the unjust....but only abides.... IN THE ELECT SEED! As to stating that the Holy Ghost was only given at Pentecost...is a misnomer.
As to the Holy Ghost being with JESUS in the garden....I think I will take the Word of GOD..... over your obvious lack of Scriptural knowledge!
John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
I say....When the life of GOD....the fullness of the Godhead...left the body called the Son.....on the Cross the body (SON) died. The Spirit of LIFE IN JESUS....the Holy Ghost...after tasting of death.....went to hell and preached to the spirits in prison..... for rejecting the messages of the Prophets. The Holy Ghost....non other than the Spirit of JESUS CHRIST.....then took the keys of death hell and the grave away from the devil....then crossed over to a place referred to as Paradise.... and brought the Elect of the ages in a return ministry....out of their graves..... in a Resurrection. Only ALMIGHTY GOD has that power....The same ALMIGHTY that JESUS asserts/proclaims Himself to be....in the Book of the Revelation. Do note that He didn't say WE.....but I and NOT Lords ....but Lord!
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
You said >>>>>Where did you get the idea that we hold ANY doctrinal position concerning the Trinity?  Certainly nothing we have discussed leads you to that. Or any, conclusion concerning what we believe.  We speak in terms of what Branham taught, not what we believe.
I say.....Are you really that detached from the things we have been communicating on?
Your previous statement >>>>*** How is it that God can have a conference with His Son if they are not two separate entities?
===Gethsemane===
Another from this exchange >>>>>Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit was there in the Garden of Gethsemane??  Really?  WOW!!!  It was Jesus who was there, Jesus who was God manifest on earth as a human being.  The Holy Spirit which was promised by Jesus Christ came later…
I say....It is rather evident in the areas that you attack William Branham's teachings....that you also betray your own doctrines.
==Astrology==
You said >>>>> Branham taught that there are three Bibles including one based on the mystery of the pyramids and one based on the zodiac.  Don’t confuse astronomy with astrology.  Astronomy is the science of the movement of the stars, and we are certain that God orders the movement of the stars in all things.  On the other hand, Astrology is the zodiac, the divining further events by the zodiac.  Branham said this:
53-0509, The Pillar Of Fire.....  “God's wrote three Bibles: one, the Zodiac, one in the pyramids, one on paper. Now, He's writing His first, the Zodiac. It starts off with a virgin, ends up with Leo the lion: Jesus' first coming and His second coming. If we had time to run down through it, you'd see it.” 
I say......In the 1st place of TRUTH....Scripture declares that the heavenly bodies were created by GOD...for SIGNS....TIMES and SEASONS. In the book of Job....GOD taught that the constellations have an influence on the earth. In the below THUS SAITH THE LORD....GOD speaks to Job concerning the MAZZAROTH...(Zodiac) and the influences of other heavenly constellations. We can't help what the devil has done to GOD's original prophetic sign giver....by twisting it into astrology. GOD has also given us the Bible and the devil and his seed..... has done the same thing to the Bible ....with the scores of interpretations supposedly based on it. Again...sorry for your previous ignorance of Scripture....now you know something you can grow in understanding by ......seeing :)
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Brother ABM2


=Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 2:48 AM=
=Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 2:48 AM=
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BTS2
BTS2


=Thursday, February 28, 2019 5:48 PM=
Brother BTS2,
==The Doctrine of the Trinity==
You said concerning the quote below >>>> Wait, WHAT?!?!?!? Clearly you didn’t read what was emailed to you. Branham said these very words: Are you suggesting that Branham didn’t speak these words???  He tells us here that a TRIUNE doctrine is “hatched out of hell”, as he suggests here:
60-0925 THAT.DAY.ON.CALVARY "Where do you get that triune, pagan doctrine? Out of a catechism, not out of the Bible. The word "trinity" is not even mentioned in the whole Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. There's no such a thing. There is no such a thing as a trinitarian god."
I say.......If you had the least bit of the ability to understand what he is referring to in specificity....we wouldn't be having this exchange based on this simple to understand subject matter. He...in the above quote.... is specifically referring to the use of the DOCTRINAL ASPECT.... of the terminology "TRIUNE"....as applied (taught).... by the Trinitarian/Triune concept of 3 separate PERSONS in Godhead! I thought we covered that simple to understand use of a word..... in my previous exchange. Don't you remember that we explained that the word "TRINITY"...... can be applied either to GOD being three attributes of ONE PERSON ......or as a "TRINITY" concept .....of 3 separate persons.
Again...if I may repeat myself to anchor the point. Brother Branham is SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO THE WORD "TRIUNE".... AS IS TAUGHT (BASTARDIZED)..... BY THE TRINITARIAN CONCEPT OF 3 PERSONS!!!!!! Why that is so hard for you to grasp...is beyond me! 1st grade Example.....a TRICYCLE is one bike...with a distinction of having 3 wheels. It IS NOT 3 different bikes....get it. Someone could use the same word "TRICYCLE and say it had a "TRINITY" of wheels...or "TRIUNE" wheels and then say because the word "TRIUNE" or "TRINITY" was used to describe the TRICYCLE....insist that "TRIUNE" meant 3 separate bikes. The same word or words....used in different applications of concept. One is bastardized and the other is perfectly correct.
Just like Scripture.....to some it is not given..... to understand the original intent contained in the Words. That's why there are so many interpretations to any given sets of words.....written in Scripture. Without DIVINELY given eyesight.....most will read and study and never come to the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH!
==What did William Branham teach?==
You said >>>> Can you please show us where what we showed you wasn’t in what Branham taught?  He taught those things, right??  Unbelievable.
I say.....You used the words he said and then put your interpretation/spin to them...no differently than the serpent did in the garden to Eve.....or the Pharisees did in JESUS' day. The serpent used GOD's words and then reinterpreted them to Eve...twisting the original intent.... away from its true original meaning. When satan confronted the LORD JESUS....he used Scripture..... in an attempt to trap Him. Every quote you used..... in the context of what I know Brother Branham believed and taught....is perfectly correct. You are twisting it out of context!!!!
Referring to what I said previously.....the Triune being that we call GOD....is MODALIST (MONOTHEIST).... IN BEING and MANIFOLD IN MANIFESTATIONS. One Spirit....One being...one LORD. The terminology of TRIUNE or TRINITY..... used within the applied limits of ONE PERSON with 3 major attributes/objectives..... is exactly correct. Using the same words and applying them to describe 3 separate Persons in Godhead .....is a doctrine out of the pit of hell. If you don't have the ability to see the difference....I really feel sorry for you as a claimed minister.
You said >>>> Wait, WHAT?!?!?!?!? Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit was there in the Garden of Gethsemane??  Really?  WOW!!!  It was Jesus who was there, Jesus who was God manifest on earth as a human being.  The Holy Spirit which was promised by Jesus Christ came later…
I say.....Even the Prophets of the Old Testament had the Holy Ghost. I am concerned about your limited conclusions.... in searching for Scriptural Truth..... Brother.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost was given in the Old Testament to those whom GOD chose to give it to. John the Baptist ......was baptized with the Holy Ghost....in his mother's womb.
When JESUS..... in Spirit form.... came back on the day of Pentecost....He made the Holy Ghost available to all that seek Him....even to those who are not true believers. The rain falls on both the Just and the unjust....but only abides.... IN THE ELECT SEED! As to stating that the Holy Ghost was only given at Pentecost...is a misnomer.
As to the Holy Ghost being with JESUS in the garden....I think I will take the Word of GOD..... over your obvious lack of Scriptural knowledge!
John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
I say....When the life of GOD....the fullness of the Godhead...left the body called the Son.....on the Cross the body (SON) died. The Spirit of LIFE IN JESUS....the Holy Ghost...after tasting of death.....went to hell and preached to the spirits in prison..... for rejecting the messages of the Prophets. The Holy Ghost....non other than the Spirit of JESUS CHRIST.....then took the keys of death hell and the grave away from the devil....then crossed over to a place referred to as Paradise.... and brought the Elect of the ages in a return ministry....out of their graves..... in a Resurrection. Only ALMIGHTY GOD has that power....The same ALMIGHTY that JESUS asserts/proclaims Himself to be....in the Book of the Revelation. Do note that He didn't say WE.....but I and NOT Lords ....but Lord!
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
You said >>>>>Where did you get the idea that we hold ANY doctrinal position concerning the Trinity?  Certainly nothing we have discussed leads you to that. Or any, conclusion concerning what we believe.  We speak in terms of what Branham taught, not what we believe.
I say.....Are you really that detached from the things we have been communicating on?
Your previous statement >>>>*** How is it that God can have a conference with His Son if they are not two separate entities?
===Gethsemane===
Another from this exchange >>>>>Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit was there in the Garden of Gethsemane??  Really?  WOW!!!  It was Jesus who was there, Jesus who was God manifest on earth as a human being.  The Holy Spirit which was promised by Jesus Christ came later…
I say....It is rather evident in the areas that you attack William Branham's teachings....that you also betray your own doctrines.
==Astrology==
You said >>>>> Branham taught that there are three Bibles including one based on the mystery of the pyramids and one based on the zodiac.  Don’t confuse astronomy with astrology.  Astronomy is the science of the movement of the stars, and we are certain that God orders the movement of the stars in all things.  On the other hand, Astrology is the zodiac, the divining further events by the zodiac.  Branham said this:
53-0509, The Pillar Of Fire.....  “God's wrote three Bibles: one, the Zodiac, one in the pyramids, one on paper. Now, He's writing His first, the Zodiac. It starts off with a virgin, ends up with Leo the lion: Jesus' first coming and His second coming. If we had time to run down through it, you'd see it.” 
I say......In the 1st place of TRUTH....Scripture declares that the heavenly bodies were created by GOD...for SIGNS....TIMES and SEASONS. In the book of Job....GOD taught that the constellations have an influence on the earth. In the below THUS SAITH THE LORD....GOD speaks to Job concerning the MAZZAROTH...(Zodiac) and the influences of other heavenly constellations. We can't help what the devil has done to GOD's original prophetic sign giver....by twisting it into astrology. GOD has also given us the Bible and the devil and his seed..... has done the same thing to the Bible ....with the scores of interpretations supposedly based on it. Again...sorry for your previous ignorance of Scripture....now you know something you can grow in understanding by ......seeing :)
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Brother ABM2


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