Question 2 (BM2) - Was William Branham a prophet?: Difference between revisions

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Question 2 (BM2) - Was William Branham a prophet? (view source)

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 I say......I am beginning to wonder what kind of mixed up mess....that I am communicating with. Your WEB PAGE..... against the ministry of William Branham isn't a group...but  a bunch.....all belonging to a specific internet PAGE.....with nothing in common with each other etc! Yet every one of you are in some sort of united effort to destroy...with nothing in common??????
 Your bunch....are working fervently to kill/destroy the effects of a ministry....that has won millions to Christ.....gave nearly all his time and effort to pray for the sick and destitute....went off of the field for quite some time...because the sponsors couldn't meet the expenses and because he refused to ask for personal offerings...in spite of what you have said. He had angelic visitations .....witnessed by living witnesses today being in the room and also foretold scores of events...while riding in an automobile with acquaintances....by their own testimony by them..... in my hearing.
-  You and your BUNCH..... compass the whole earth and find 5 or 6 incidents...which can't be proven either way.....then add your opinion without knowing the facts surrounding them and use your manufactured conclusion ....in an attempt to destroy. I see a Scriptural pattern here....exactly as was done to the LORD JESUS in His day....a BUNCH of Pharisees sent out a BUNCH of critics.....in a concerted effort.... to trap the LORD in his words.  No differently than your BUNCH has done..... in this time. They may be sincere...that.... no one but that individual knows...but I would venture to say....that if they had the recorded life of Moses...early on in his life...they would attempt to assassinate his ministry as being a false prophet...since it is obvious that he used murder early on....to accomplish his purpose.  Paul was also guilty of murder early on and taught the doctrines of the Pharisees...until he met the LORD on the road to Damascus. Even after his conversion...along with all the errors of his early teaching...he commanded his followers to do this...in his prediction of the time of the Coming.
+You and your BUNCH..... compass the whole earth and find 5 or 6 incidents...which can't be proven either way.....then add your opinion without knowing the facts surrounding them and use your manufactured conclusion ....in an attempt to destroy. I see a Scriptural pattern here....exactly as was done to the LORD JESUS in His day....a BUNCH of Pharisees sent out a BUNCH of critics.....in a concerted effort.... to trap the LORD in his words.  No differently than your BUNCH has done..... in this time. They may be sincere...that.... no one but that individual knows...but I would venture to say....that if they had the recorded life of Moses...early on in his life...they would attempt to assassinate his ministry as being a false prophet...since it is obvious that he used murder early on....to accomplish his purpose.  Paul was also guilty of murder early on and taught the doctrines of the Pharisees...until he met the LORD on the road to Damascus. Even after his conversion...along with all the errors of his early teaching...he commanded his followers to do this...in his prediction of the time of the Coming.
-Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
+Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
 Brother Branham never hurt anyone physically and gave his life early on.... to the service of the LORD. Why don't you and your BUNCH .....call Paul a false prophet...since he erred in his prediction. That was nearly 2000 years ago and what he predicted at/for that time.....hasn't happened yet!
 I believe BUNCHES like yours...are the perfect fulfillment of this Scripture below....for today. In all honesty...I see a BUNCH of spiritual anarchists...out to destroy a ministry..... that they haven't the ability to understand anything about how GOD works.
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 BTS 2
+=BM2 Response=
+Brother BTS 2,
+You said >>>> I can appreciate the fact that this is frustrating for you to see in Branham’s own words.  But, it's not us you should be frustrated with, BM2.  We aren’t the problem.
+And still you have no response to the original question concerning another of Branham’s prophecies or visions which failed to come to pass, the Municipal Bridge vision which Branham spoke of several times as well and about which I have now asked you multiple times.
+I say......I have no reason to be frustrated in reading what Brother Branham said.....being as it is....that I have the ability to read ALL that is said ....on any given subject. I then take the latest information to Scripture and see if it is there in content.....then I teach the subject matter directly from the Bible. Just because you can't see it...doesn't keep it from being there.
+I did respond to your bridge issue previously.... in just a few words and I still say the same thing. "It is an issue that can't be proven pro nor con"....since all the witnesses are dead and the "REST OF THE STORY" is buried with them. Your total dependence on what you can find in politically run newspaper reported deaths....in/on the construction of the bridge....as I see it....is no more completely credible or accurate...than your search was for/in the records of Brother Branham's fathers birth.....with different dates. Of course..... you could be of the opinion...... that Government run projects are purely transparent and above board...in reporting everything negative. It promotes re-election ....right?
+I did talk last week..... to the only living witness...to/of the Angel coming into the motel room..... when Brother Billy was around 12. He straightened out the very thing....that your BUNCH tried to make Brother Branham a liar for. It puts your BUNCH into the category..... of being false accusers.....uuuhhhh LIARS. Again....perhaps you should have talked with the living witness...before jumping gleefully onto the destroy William Branham band wagon.
+On another issue....I have on my desk...a copy of the testimony of Brother Branham's King George V1 event...by another witness. He testifies that he saw the files in Brother Branham's office...concerning all the exchanges between King George's secretary...stamped with the royal seals and that it was stated (my wording) "that the symptoms of losing the ability to walk over a short time....reflected the symptoms of MS". Brother Branham had no reason to get a doctor and send him to England... to be sure it was the disease...that he was told by someone else.  Again....unprovable pro or con. Personally..... I think the Scripture verse of our LORD's words...."Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel"...perfectly fits your ilks agenda......no differently than in JESUS' time.
+Matthew 23:24....Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
+You said >>>>If we aren’t going to address the issues concerning William Branham’s qualifications as a prophet of God, then how can we in any confidence at all discuss anything else related to his life or his ministry?  That’s why I asked initially what the qualifications of a prophet of God are in your view.  You have told us of great works, signs, and wonders.  We have shown you scripturally where Jesus and the Apostles warn of false prophets who will come with great signs, wonders, and works.  You have told us of his power to discern.  We have shown you instances where his discernment had failed and was seriously called into question.
+I say.......That is rather a contradictory statement isn't it? You spend a lot of effort trying to prove him not to be a Prophet..... by what you call false prophecies.....which are outcroppings of a Prophet's identification. Not only that....but the things/events that you bring as your biased evidence...are directly related to his life and ministry!
+His teaching...which is the Scripturally PROVABLE identification....is the most important part of his ministry. Prophecies.....of themselves.....can be self interpreted by the reader by opinion. Prophecy can have a far reaching future event/events and by my personal dedicated research over many years....I well understand that much of Bible Prophecy hasn't happened as yet. One Scholar put it at 90%...yet to be FULFILLED. That doesn't in any way make the Prophet false....that prophesies of a future event either to literally happen then or later as shown by a Vision......or....by symbolic representation.... as is shown quite often by/in Scripture.
+To the point of questionable discernment....you haven't PROVED anything...being as it is also well understood by those of us familiar with his ministry.....that Brother Branham's GIFTS...worked in various ways. He was a seer Prophet. Sometimes he would see the situation by Vision in symbolism... as in Name representation and other times it was spelled out and he had to say/pronounce it..... as best as he could. If his strength (VIRTUE) was waning...he many times would use the sign in his hand...as I witnessed many times....during his meetings.
+I remember well..... a pretty well nationally renowned evangelist....who was about to commit suicide and was called out by Vision. Brother Branham mispronounced the man's Name in the 1st Letter of his last Name. I know that...because I knew the man personally. The man didn't complain..... because all the other things said after the mis-pronunciation of one letter.... identified him to a T. He was healed immediately. Your BUNCH.... would have jumped on this event as identification of a false prophet...straining at a gnat as Scripture calls it and totally bypass the miracle..... that saved the man's life and his following winning of many souls to Salvation.
+It does frustrate me in that particular area....that people could be so blind with a veiled agenda of hate....that they condemn .....without a full understanding of the facts. In my opinion....they actually condemn themselves. In part.... since they have ABSOLUTELY NO CONFIRMATION FROM GOD..... to back their own opinionated accusations and also because they cry for an open borders grace for themselves and others of their persuasion....in spite of their own false teachings....except of course for William Branham.
+So far..... I see nothing in your overall presentation...... except unprovable and incomplete...half truth opinions...based on bias and disguised hate. As I see it.....that kind of deception is a current religious counterpart of Liberalism...headed up like fake news reporting...like CNN in the current natural comparison. They all have arguing points and to the ignorant....they sound so convincing...but to the informed....is nothing more than twisted/slanted opinion.....driven by hate. It most certainly isn't Biblical love.... in/by any stretch of the word.
+I am told by a Brother in the midwest...that is acquainted with some of the people of your persuasion....that upon leaving the Message....the Women he knew of....cut their hair.....painted their faces...... put on britches and began wearing flashy jewelry etc. Do you advocate that..... as being set free?????
+Brother BM2
+=Response by BTS 2=
+Thanks for the reply.  Although you didn’t address the issue, and you provided another very wide shot of issues to deal with, I will focus you back on the issue at hand.
+You have said in your response that you needed reply to because it can’t be proven.  But in fact it can.
+Let’s review what William Branham said:
+William Branham told of a vision he had as a boy of the construction of a bridge and of its supernatural fulfillment. This story was used to bolster his claim to be a prophet.
+:''“I was playing marbles out with my little brothers, out in the front yard. And all at once I had a strange feeling come on me. And I stopped and set down aside of a tree. And we were right up on the bank from the Ohio River. And I looked down towards Jeffersonville, and I seen a bridge rise up and go across that, the river, span the river. And I seen sixteen men (I counted them) that dropped off of there and lost their lives on that bridge. I run in real quick and told my mother, and she thought I went to sleep. But they kept it in mind, and twenty-two years from then the Municipal Bridge now (that many of you cross when you cross there) crossed the river at the same place, and sixteen men lost their life building that bridge across the river.” It's never failed to be perfectly true. (My Life Story, Los Angeles, April 19, 1959)
+From his various retellings of the vision, we can draw the following conclusions about the vision and its fulfillment:
+The vision occurred while playing marbles with one or more of his younger brothers when William Branham was a young boy.
+William Branham saw the Municipal Bridge being built across the Ohio River between Jeffersonville and Louisville. He clearly identifies it was this specific bridge.
+William Branham counted 16 men falling to their deaths from the bridge. He indicated they all drowned.
+He saw a sign or heard someone say 22 years.
+He told his mother about it and she wrote it down.
+Twenty-two years later the municipal bridge was erected and 16 men fell to their deaths and drowned during the construction process just exactly as the Lord had shown William Branham in his vision.
+And here is the basic truth… WE CAN PROVE IT DIDN’T HAPPEN!
+Let’s address how a prophet in the bible speaks and of that which they speak.  Ture prophets in the Bible speak about three time periods. 1) They speak about the first coming of the Messiah… Branham was clearly too late for that.  2)  They speak about the second coming of Christ.  3)  They speak about things which are “contemporaneous”, that is to say things which will occur or have occurred in their life time.
+These three time periods about which prophets speak do indeed account for a lot of prophecies which have yet to come to pass.
+The bridge vision which William Branham spoke was of the third category.  He stated in his vision that 16 men fell to their death in the river while the river was being built.  A well-known minister, Pearry Green, was with Branham near the river at Green gives testimony on video which tells of Branham pointing to the very section of the bridge was collapsed, and where the men were killed (the link to this video is attached here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpHiDzvnRHk ).  Some have called into question after Green’s death his motives and credibility.  Branham himself speaks very highly of Green here:
+:''“Brother Green preaches the same thing and Message that I believe in. He's left his home; he's left his people; he's left his church. He was, I believe, he was a district superintendent or something of one of the organizations, and give the whole thing up when he heard This. He left everything that was dear to him also to come to the desert, just to support what God is giving to us now.”  What house will you build me. Tucson, Arizona, November 21, 1965.
+I am assuming that when Branham whom you consider to be highly credible praises Green in this manner that you don’t dispute his reputation or credibility.  Further to this point, the founders of the Believe the Sign web site and Facebook forum spoke to Green prior to his death in 2012.  Green confirmed all of the material facts of the story as represented in his video testimony personally.
+Branham spoke of this vision happening a total of 13 times in addition to the quote which was provided here.
+In the quote, Branham speaks about the vision coming to him 22 years prior to the Municipal Bridge being built:
+:''“… But they kept it in mind, and twenty-two years from then the Municipal Bridge now (that many of you cross when you cross there) crossed the river at the same place, and sixteen men lost their life building that bridge across the river.”  My Life Story, Los Angeles, April 19, 1959
+According to the official record, President Herbert Hoover dedicated the bridge and it was opened on October 31, 1929.  Now, I’m not a Rocket Scientist, but I have a calculator.  Branham tells us he had the vision 22 years prior to the bridge opening.  That puts his vision in 1907.  Branham is clear in each of his recounting of the event that he was playing outside with his younger brothers, and that he went inside to tell his mother.  No matter which birthdate you give credence to which Branham used on various documents and which he told at various times, Branham wasn’t born yet, or was just he was 7 months old.  So, how can Branham have had the vision 22 years before the bridge was completed?
+But let’s ignore the obvious problem with the math.  I have attached the official report from the engineers to the contracting authority which paid for the bridge for your review.  You will find in this report no mention of such an event.  There WERE two men who died in the building of this bridge:
+On Wednesday, June 19, 1929, Richard Pilton died after being hit in the temple with an iron crank. He did not drown.
+On September 10, 1929. Lloyd McEwen lost his footing and fell, landing on a barge below the bridge. He did not drown, but rather, died from the injuries caused from his fall.
+So, let’s take a look at what we have to “prove” that the vision didn’t not occur as Branham stated, under the anointing and retold under the Authority of God
+No mention of the drowning in the official report.
+Two men DID die at two different times, and their deaths were well documented in the newspaper articles of the day.  This demonstrates that if 16 men HAD drowned as Branham claims, their deaths would certainly be reported in both official records and in the journalistic records of the moment.
+Pearry Green confirms to us while giving video testimony that he personally was standing near the bridge which Branham identified definitively as “THE BRIDGE” about which the vision took place, and confirms that Branham told him personally which span of the bridge had collapsed and from which the men fell to their deaths.
+Most importantly, the vision which Branham claims under the Authority of God to have had concerning these deaths took place prior to Bramham’s’ birth, or when he was 7 months old, depending on the birthdate which you prefer to give credence to regarding Branham’s birth.
+We look at these things and can say definitively that the Municipal Bridge vision which William Branham spoke of 14 times in his recorded sermons never took place, and certainly never came to pass.
+Branham in this instance says that he spoke as a prophet of God, under God’s Authority and that he had this vision, just as he outlined it in the multiple sermons in which it was discussed.  I have very clearly demonstrated that this could not possibly have come to pass.  Branham spoke of a contemporaneous matter, as true prophets of God do from time to time, and this prophecy, this vision, failed.
+If your assertion is that Branham spoke about that which is going to come to pass in the future, then clearly both Branham and Pearry Green are confused about which bridge and which span of the bridge collapsed resulting in the deaths of the 16 men.
+Can you please shed some light on this for me?  Did Branham speak with God’s Authority about a contemporaneous event which came to pass while Branham was alive when he spoke of the Municipal Bridge?  Did this vision come to pass, or did it fail?
+We must start there in order to establish Branham’s credibility.  If you aren’t willing to address this issue, this failing of Branham’s spoken vision which Branham tells us was anointed by God and retold under God’s Authority, then how can we discuss any other issues which we can prove demonstrably which Branham spoke which similarly are not true and did not come to pass?
+I anxiously await your explanation.
+BTS 2
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