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Q&A with a Progressive Revelation Branham Minister: Difference between revisions

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Q&A with a Progressive Revelation Branham Minister (view source)

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==Response from BTS Editor 2==
==Response from BTS Editor 2==
Thanks for getting back to me, and thanks for the background about your stance.
We have from time to time had discussions with message believers and ministers concerning the message of William Branham.  These are the guidelines that we suggest to keep the conversation civil and moving forward.  If these guidelines are acceptable to you, I am happy to have the discussion with you.


Reading your email, if I may presume to correct something, Branham received many offerings and material items from people who followed his message.  
Reading your email, if I may presume to correct something, Branham received many offerings and material items from people who followed his message.  
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BM2, I appreciate your time and look forward to hearing back from you.
BM2, I appreciate your time and look forward to hearing back from you.


BTS Editor 2
BTS Editor #2


===Further response from BM2===
=Further response from BM2=


You said >>>> I appreciate that you cannot speak on behalf of the message. There are far too many sects within the message to allow anyone to do that. I would disagree with you that you speak on behalf of the gospel of Christ. The only thing that you can do is speak from your understanding of the Bible. My sincerely held view is that William Branham distorted the Gospel of Christ by mixing law and grace, something that we are warned against by Paul in the book of Galatians. I expect that is only one of many areas with respect to which we disagree.
You said >>>> I appreciate that you cannot speak on behalf of the message. There are far too many sects within the message to allow anyone to do that. I would disagree with you that you speak on behalf of the gospel of Christ. The only thing that you can do is speak from your understanding of the Bible. My sincerely held view is that William Branham distorted the Gospel of Christ by mixing law and grace, something that we are warned against by Paul in the book of Galatians. I expect that is only one of many areas with respect to which we disagree.
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To your statement...that Brother Branham mixed Law with Grace...I might ask you....just which of the ten commandments do you find offensive? Paul...who you must refer to for your (whichever) opinion of Grace....also based many of his teachings on "AS ALSO SAITH THE LAW"! I am not referring to the practiced ordinances of the old Tabernacle....since it is WELL UNDERSTOOD....that the LORD JESUS was the FULFILLMENT of the types and shadows....without question. That's where the rubber meets the road...in being truly BORN AGAIN and having the GOD given ability..... to RIGHTLY DIVIDE SCRIPTURE. That's why the Word of the LORD comes to the PROPHETS....as it is expressed through the New Testament..... with Paul having the AUTHORITY to his Dispensation...as a Prophet.....to disannul any teaching outside of what he said ....was the CORRECT/TRUE Word of the LORD. He taught the MYSTERIES...that no other of his time was commissioned to teach....as was testified to by none other than Peter in 2nd Peter 3:16. That is the SCRIPTURAL PROMISE for today...as is stated in Rev.10:7.
To your statement...that Brother Branham mixed Law with Grace...I might ask you....just which of the ten commandments do you find offensive? Paul...who you must refer to for your (whichever) opinion of Grace....also based many of his teachings on "AS ALSO SAITH THE LAW"! I am not referring to the practiced ordinances of the old Tabernacle....since it is WELL UNDERSTOOD....that the LORD JESUS was the FULFILLMENT of the types and shadows....without question. That's where the rubber meets the road...in being truly BORN AGAIN and having the GOD given ability..... to RIGHTLY DIVIDE SCRIPTURE. That's why the Word of the LORD comes to the PROPHETS....as it is expressed through the New Testament..... with Paul having the AUTHORITY to his Dispensation...as a Prophet.....to disannul any teaching outside of what he said ....was the CORRECT/TRUE Word of the LORD. He taught the MYSTERIES...that no other of his time was commissioned to teach....as was testified to by none other than Peter in 2nd Peter 3:16. That is the SCRIPTURAL PROMISE for today...as is stated in Rev.10:7.


====Reply from BTS 2====
==Reply from BTS 2==


I appreciate your response…. My email was to identify your willingness to engage in the discussion, and to speak about how we could do that.  I assume then that you agree with the guidelines which have been put forth?
I appreciate your response…. My email was to identify your willingness to engage in the discussion, and to speak about how we could do that.  I assume then that you agree with the guidelines which have been put forth?
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BTS 2
BTS 2


=====BM2 Reply=====
You said >>>> By the way, Mr. MacGraw, Paul was an Apostle, not a prophet.
I say.....Evidently/obviously....you seem to be quite myopic in Scriptural teaching/understanding of a Prophet's identification. I also noticed a slant in your posits to me....that tips/leans towards the serious error.... of John the Baptist being the LAST PROPHET.
IF.....that is what you are suggesting....may I make you aware...that if John the Baptist was the LAST PROPHET....then the LORD JESUS could not have been a PROPHET afterwards. Another glaring example..... of not rightly dividing Scripture.
That would also nullify the setting in order.... of the TRUE New Testament church.....making the advocates of those thinking/teaching John being the last Prophet..... anti-Christ.... in/on its very premise.
Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Acts 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Acts 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Brother Kraus.....Do note !!!!!.....GOD HAS SET IN THE CHURCH!  Anyone/those who take them out....either suggestively or literally....are against GODS WORD!
Let's take a little deeper SCRIPTURAL LOOK....into PROPHETS and the different LEVELS of their identification and operation!
I will skip over Abraham and many other Old Testament Prophets and their Scriptural identification as Prophets and start with David.....since this time frame introduces a distinction of administration.  David was a Prophet....yet he had over him..... a Prophet named NATHAN... on a different (HIGHER) level.
David under inspiration while singing psalms....would prophesy future events and that...only in part. Those future events were many times in symbolic or poetic form and mixed together.... with non prophetic content. Nathan....David's personal Prophet....had .....by a HIGHER GIFT....the ability to have direct contact with GOD and get an immediate direct answer from GOD. David had to consult a Prophet on a higher level of GIFT..... to hear directly from GOD...than just in singing and then inspiration filling the utterance with scattered phrases of prophecy....yet the LORD JESUS declared David to be a Prophet.
Nathan.... the Prophet of the day....as a direct example.....told David to build the Temple and after he went out from telling David to do so....was CORRECTED by GOD....BY SUPERNATURAL VISITATION and was emphatically told...... "Go back and tell David NOT TO BUILD THE TEMPLE!" That didn't in any way make Nathan a FALSE PROPHET....but does in pattern and spiritual wisdom let us know...that Prophets OF GOD....can give an opinion based on inspiration..... as in 1 Chronicles 17:2..."Then Nathan said unto David, Do all that is in thine heart; for God is with thee." Nathan's opinion...was based on his understanding....by previous inspirational record....that GOD was with David....but his opinion was not a PROPHECY...just an opinion based on the inspirationally given promise to David.
We also have Amos....who denied being a Prophet in 7:14...yet he is included by GOD....in the Books of the Prophets. What were his qualifications?
John....the New Testament Prophet..... who wrote the Book of  Revelation....was a Prophet after Paul....who met every criteria of a Prophet. Paul..... a seer Prophet.... by Visions.....was the teacher of New Revelations...taught the mysteries and on and on. Certainly he was an Apostle. Not only was he an Apostle...he was a Pastor....a Teacher...a Missionary...an Evangelist and on the highest level of callings....a Prophet.... that GOD CHOSE....to set in order the New Testament church...even so much so...that he said that an angel from heaven couldn't teach contrary to his Revelations!
Just how do you judge the prophets of your church affiliation....or do you even have prophets in your group? If not...then your group or groups....DO NOT represent the TRUE New Testament church and would be found outside the parameters of Scriptural representation.....to speak for the LORD JESUS. As it is WRITTEN.....the TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
On a side note...... I would hope that you wouldn't have to go back to the Old Testament LAW....(GASP!)....to be able to identify a Prophet. Your contention is ....that we are not under the LAW but under GRACE......ISN'T IT?
MORE LATER ......ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF GRACE AND ITS APPLICATION/MEANING)
======BTS 2 Response======
Thanks for the response.  Again, forgive the lengthy reply.  I am sure most of this is redundant for you as a minister of the Gospel.  It is for those who will read this who don’t have your benefit of knowledge and understanding.
What is interesting about your response is that you have not chosen to identify your scriptural definition of a prophet.  I remember that I asked you to do that so we could stand on common ground.
If you believe that William Branham, and for that matter Paul, was a prophet, then you must have some notion of what a prophet is and how scripture teaches about a prophet.
And this is essential for the remaining questions concerning William Branham being a prophet of God or a false prophet.  So, I would ask you again… what is your scriptural definition of a prophet of God in the Old Testament sense, and in the New Testament sense?
We are keenly aware that there are those which possess and have possessed the Gift of the Holy Spirit called prophecy.  I think we pointed that out to you when we showed you this verse:
Ephesians 4:11-13 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
And so, we see that there are those which possess the Gift of Prophecy even today.  But we also know from scripture the differences between those of the Old Testament who were charged by God Himself to carry God’s Word to His people and others, and those in the New Testament who possess the Gift from the Holy Spirit.
First, I want to directly address your scripture from Matthew.  You provided it out of context.  Here is the context of the scripture and what Jesus says:
Matthew 23:29-39 (HCSB)
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30 and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we wouldn’t have taken part with them in shedding the prophets’ blood.’
31 You, therefore, testify against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ sins!
33 “Snakes! Brood of vipers! How can you escape being condemned to hell?
34 This is why I am sending you prophets, sages, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and hound from town to town.
35 So all the righteous blood shed on the earth will be charged to you, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 I assure you: All these things will come on this generation!
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem! She who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, yet you were not willing!
38 See, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I tell you, you will never see Me again until you say, ‘He who comes in the name of the Lord is the blessed One’!”
Here Jesus, whose ministry on earth was to turn the Nation of Israel towards God and the Messiah (and as you know they rejected him) admonishes the Jews and specifically the Pharisees for various behaviors.  He speaks to them as “sons of those who murdered the prophets” in verse 31, and goes on to tells them that they too will destroy great men of God in verse 32 when He says “32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ sins!”.  And we see the martyrdom of many after Christ’s death and resurrection such as Stephen in whose persecution and death the Apostle Paul is said to have participated.
So, we are clear.  There were, are, and will be those with the gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit.  But again, we look to scripture to help us understand the Old Testament prophet and the New Testament person with the Gift of Prophecy, and how they are different.
In the Old Testament, we see that God instructs the prophets to say exactly what He commands, and only what he commands, because they were one of two direct connections between God and His people:
Exodus 4:12 (HCSB)
12 Now go! I will help you speak and I will teach you what to say.”
Deuteronomy 18:17-18 (HCSB)
17 Then the LORD said to me, ‘They have spoken well.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
Jeremiah 1:9-10 (HCSB)
9 Then the LORD reached out His hand, touched my mouth, and told me: I have now filled your mouth with My words.
10 See, I have appointed you today over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and demolish, to build and plant.
Ezekiel 2:7 (HCSB)
7 But speak My words to them whether they listen or refuse ⌊to listen⌋, for they are rebellious.
The Old Testament is full of books that start with the declaration that the prophet speaks with God’s Authority:
Hosea 1:1 (HCSB)
1 The word of the LORD that came to Hosea son of Beeri during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and of Jeroboam son of Jehoash, king of Israel.
Joel 1:1 (HCSB)
1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel son of Pethuel
Micah 1:1 (HCSB)
1 The word of the LORD that came to Micah the Moreshite—what he saw regarding Samaria and Jerusalem in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
Zephaniah 1:1 (HCSB)
1 The word of the LORD that came to Zephaniah son of Cushi, son of Gedaliah, son of Amariah, son of Hezekiah, in the days of Josiah son of Amon, king of Judah.
And so, we see that the function of a prophet in the Old Testament was to serve as the ambassador, the representative, of God to His people, or to whichever people He wished to speak.
And prophetic ministry was not restricted to men in the Old Testament.  There were women such as Miriam, Deborah, Hulda, and others spoken of in the Old Testament as prophets of God.
In the New Testament the divine authority of Old Testament prophets is clearly affirms by Peter the Apostle as he wrote these words:
2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
20 First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
21 because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Interestingly, in the next chapter Peter goes on to instruct us about false prophets:
2 Peter 2:1 (HCSB)
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.
There is something in what Peter says here, I think.
In the New Testament, there is of course John the Baptist.
Matthew 11:7-10 (HCSB)
7 As these men went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swaying in the wind?
8 What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothes? Look, those who wear soft clothes are in kings’ palaces.
9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and far more than a prophet.
10 This is the one it is written about: Look, I am sending My messenger ahead of You; he will prepare Your way before You.
And naturally, Jesus Christ is considered the Greatest of all Prophets:
John 4:19-26 (HCSB)
19 “Sir,” the woman replied, “I see that You are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, yet you ⌊Jews⌋ say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 Jesus told her, “Believe Me, woman, an hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know, because salvation is from the Jews.
23 But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship Him.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will explain everything to us.”
26 “I am ⌊He⌋,” Jesus told her, “the One speaking to you.”
While Jesus did not correct her when she identified Him as a prophet here, he also revealed Himself to her as The Messiah.
Chiefly Jesus was considered a Prophet among the Jews who while rejecting Him as the Messiah saw him as speaking prophetically.  And today religions like the Muslims, Hindus, and others, consider Him nothing more than a prophet because they cannot rationalize Jesus as Messiah which would put a lie to their beliefs.
It was at the moment of Christ’s death on the cross when the NEW COVENANT was ushered in as discussed in my previous email (I will refrain from repeating it here).  At that point, the entire Economy of God changed.  There was, as was pointed out, no longer a requirement for a human intercessor, a prophet of God, to carry God Word to His people.  We will see in a moment how that manifested itself with the appearance of the Holy Spirit.
But I would like to say that to fail to emphasize, to minimize, this point actually minimizes the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ on the cross with His death as The Lamb of God, the Perfect Sacrifice.  If after Christ’s death and resurrection for our sins there is a requirement for a prophet to carry God’s Word, then His sacrifice was reduced, even nullified.  This would be a most unfortunate conclusion.
And so, we see that on the day of Pentecost, Peter tells us that unlike the more limited exercise of prophecy during the time of the Old Covenant, God would pour out his Spirit “on all people”:
Acts 2:17-18 (HCSB)
17 And it will be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out My Spirit on all humanity; then your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.
18 I will even pour out My Spirit on My male and female slaves in those days, and they will prophesy.
And so, we see the broader Gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit.  We also look to scripture to see how that Gift is to be controlled and used as Paul the Apostle tells us about church order and discipline:
1 Corinthians 14:26-33 (HCSB)
26 What then is ⌊the conclusion⌋, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, ⌊another⌋ language, or an interpretation. All things must be done for edification.
27 If any person speaks in ⌊another⌋ language, there should be only two, or at the most three, each in turn, and someone must interpret.
28 But if there is no interpreter, that person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God.
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should evaluate.
30 But if something has been revealed to another person sitting there, the first prophet should be silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that everyone may learn and everyone may be encouraged.
32 And the prophets’ spirits are under the control of the prophets,
33 since God is not a God of disorder but of peace…
But the Apostle Paul is also very clear about from whom prophecy originates:
1 Corinthians 14:36-40 (HCSB)
36 Did the word of God originate from you, or did it come to you only?
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, he should recognize that what I write to you is the Lord’s command.
38 But if anyone ignores this, he will be ignored.
39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in ⌊other⌋ languages.
40 But everything must be done decently and in order.
And he admonishes them that they should not forget that he gives them instruction from the Lord.
So, clearly, we are aware that there are those which possess this Gift of prophecy.  But we also see that prophecy is no longer narrowly constrained to individuals who have the singular authority to carry God’s Word as Branham intimated and stated that he was gifted:
“This is the last sign. Remember, THUS SAITH THE LORD! Did you ever hear me say that but what it was true? You are seeing your last sign. That's Scriptural. You've seen your last sign, Pentecost.”  64-0411 - Spiritual Amnesia
“Let me tell you. THUS SAITH THE LORD, you're receiving your last sign. That's according to the Scriptures and the revelation of God that's in my heart, that speaks that this is the Truth. And I trust that you will believe it to be the Truth.”  65-0426 - Proving His Word
Once again, we point out that Branham taught that which is not scriptural.  We can respectfully disagree about whether Branham was a man of God in any sense, a minister, a teacher.  But because we know that true prophets of God do not teach that which is not aligned with scripture, then we can correctly and confidently discern that Branham was a false prophet as scripture tells us here:
Deuteronomy 13:1-5 (HCSB)
1 “If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you,
2 and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’
3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and all your soul.
4 You must follow the LORD your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful to Him.
5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has urged rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the place of slavery, to turn you from the way the LORD your God has commanded you to walk. You must purge the evil from you.
Because Branham taught that he was the “last sign”, the final prophet who was singularly responsible for carrying God’s Word to His people, we know through scripture that this is not true.  It isn’t us who would assert that Branham is a false prophet, it is the very Word of God.
We believe that Christ’s sacrifice was not minimized because we know that God is not confused about His Word.  That is why we know scripturally that there is no requirement for a prophet of God as Branham declared himself in the Old Testament definition of a prophet to carry God’s Word to His people.
So, thank you for your response.  And I eagerly await your scriptural definition of a prophet of God so we may begin the discussion of how you believe William Branham qualifies.
Thank you for your time.
BTS 2


Post Script:  An Apostle may well have the Gift of Prophecy, and Paul certainly spoke with God’s Authority, but as an apostle not merely as a prophet.  Just as Jesus was a Prophet to the Jews, He was also the Messiah.


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