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A response to Bill Ivy's Defense of the Message: Difference between revisions
A response to Bill Ivy's Defense of the Message (view source)
Revision as of 06:01, 11 January 2020
, 4 years ago→A question for Bill Ivy
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==A question for Bill Ivy== | ==A question for Bill Ivy== | ||
We were believers of the message for decades. We eagerly received the message that was brought to us by message followers. We were | We were believers of the message for decades. We eagerly received the message that was brought to us by message followers. We listened to the tapes. We were the first ones to digitize the sermons and post them online. We were also part of the team that originated the initial textual search technology for the message. We believed the message with our whole hearts. | ||
However, we discovered that the pastor of our church, the largest message church in North America at the time, had covered up the sexual abuse of a minor. What disturbed us further was the fact that the many message ministers we knew failed to stand for righteousness. Some of them, like Tim Pruitt and Jason Watkins, sided with our pastor, even though they did not know the facts. Others, like Donny Reagan and Ron Peterson, acknowledged that what our pastor did was wrong. But they refused to say anything publicly. They ignored the issue. They ignored our church. And they ignored the victim. They refused to stand for the truth. They screamed against sin and the wrongs of the Roman Catholic church, but they did the same things as those they railed against. | |||
We were confronted with two questions: | |||
#Had ministers of the message perverted William Branham's teaching? OR | #Had ministers of the message perverted William Branham's teaching? OR | ||
#Was there a fundamental problem with the message itself? | #Was there a fundamental problem with the message itself? | ||
We believed the message and we WANTED IT TO BE TRUE. But '''like the Bereans we needed to DETERMINE IF THE MESSAGE WAS TRUE.''' | We believed the message and we '''WANTED IT TO BE TRUE.''' But '''like the Bereans we needed to DETERMINE IF THE MESSAGE WAS TRUE.''' | ||
So we started researching the message to prove that it was true. This would mean that the ministers of the message were the ones with the problem. Bro. Branham would be proved to be the prophet we thought him to be and his message would be our guiding light. | |||
But as we started to verify the prophecies with facts we encountered problems. After being unable to confirm the facts surrounding [[The Municipal Bridge Vision|the Municipal Bridge]] vision, George Smith told us that no one had died in the construction of the bridge. There weren't just a few problems, there were [[List of Issues with the Message|dozens and dozens of them]]. | |||
The words of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 constantly confronted us: | The words of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 constantly confronted us: | ||
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:''But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.<ref>The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Dt 18:20–22.</ref> | :''But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.<ref>The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Dt 18:20–22.</ref> | ||
So we would ask Bill Ivy | So we would ask Bill Ivy a simple question - What do we do with the problems in the message? | ||
Should we ignore the plain reading of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 if we discover a significant problem? | Should we ignore the plain reading of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 if we discover a significant problem? What if we discover dozens of problems? | ||
'''If Bill Ivy denies there are problems, we would ask him to click on the issues below and respond publicly to the questions we have asked''' (these questions have been on this website for over 7 years without a single message minister contacting us with an answer AND we have stated publicly we would change anything that anyone could prove to be incorrect): | '''If Bill Ivy denies there are problems, we would ask him to click on the issues below and respond publicly to the questions we have asked''' (these questions have been on this website for over 7 years without a single message minister contacting us with an answer AND we have stated publicly we would change anything that anyone could prove to be incorrect): | ||
#[[The Municipal Bridge Vision|Why did William Branham say that the municipal bridge vision was fulfilled when it clearly wasn't?]] '''( | #[[The Municipal Bridge Vision|Why did William Branham say that the municipal bridge vision was fulfilled when it clearly wasn't?]] '''(Is this a failed prophecy?)''' | ||
#[[The Brown Bear Vision|Why did William Branham say "Thus Saith The Lord" that he would shoot a large brown bear, when he didn't?]] '''( | #[[The Brown Bear Vision|Why did William Branham say "Thus Saith The Lord" that he would shoot a large brown bear, when he didn't?]] '''(Is this a failed prophecy?)''' | ||
#[[The Vision of the Meetings in South Africa|Why did the vision that William Branham had of the meetings in south Africa fail to be fulfilled?]] '''( | #[[The Vision of the Meetings in South Africa|Why did the vision that William Branham had of the meetings in south Africa fail to be fulfilled?]] '''(Is this a failed prophecy?)''' | ||
##[[Franklin D. Roosevelt|Why did William Branham prophecy that America would start World War 2?]] '''( | ##[[Franklin D. Roosevelt|Why did William Branham prophecy that America would start World War 2?]] '''(Is this a failed prophecy?)''' | ||
#[[Did William Branham visit the graves of Muhammad, Buddha, and Confucius?]] | #[[Did William Branham visit the graves of Muhammad, Buddha, and Confucius?]] . '''Did William Branham lie?''' | ||
#Did William Branham visit the Vatican and see the inscription "''[[VICARIVS FILII DEI]]''" above the throne of the Pope? | #Did William Branham visit the Vatican and see the inscription "''[[VICARIVS FILII DEI]]''" above the throne of the Pope? '''Did William Branham lie?''' | ||
#Did William Branham see [[Stories about Eagles|a mother eagle carry her babies on her wings?]] | #Did William Branham see [[Stories about Eagles|a mother eagle carry her babies on her wings?]] . '''Did William Branham lie?''' | ||
#[[The Cloud|Why did William Branham say that he was under the cloud when they took its picture, when he clearly wasn't?]] | #[[The Cloud|Why did William Branham say that he was under the cloud when they took its picture, when he clearly wasn't?]] . '''Did William Branham lie?''' | ||
#[[Marriage and Divorce|William Branham believed that if a wife cuts her hair, her husband can divorce her. Does the Bible teach this?]] | #[[Marriage and Divorce|William Branham believed that if a wife cuts her hair, her husband can divorce her. Does the Bible teach this?]] . '''Did William Branham teach something that is not scriptural?''' | ||
These are only a few of the questions that we asked... To see the full list, [[List of Issues with the Message|click here]]. | These are only a few of the questions that we asked... To see the full list, [[List of Issues with the Message|click here]]. | ||