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A response to Pastor Wisper Gwena: Difference between revisions
→A response to Pastor Gwena
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::What matters is truth. Truth agrees with the facts because truth is a quality of factual evidence. If you have problems with our evidence, we will be happy to state publicly where our evidence is not factual. But making intellectually dishonest statements that you should ignore the facts is not something that we are prepared to overlook. | ::What matters is truth. Truth agrees with the facts because truth is a quality of factual evidence. If you have problems with our evidence, we will be happy to state publicly where our evidence is not factual. But making intellectually dishonest statements that you should ignore the facts is not something that we are prepared to overlook. | ||
==January 6, 2018== | |||
JANUARY 6, 2018 | |||
:''Your explanation on God asking Elijah vs WMB saying I will kill a brown bear has a fundamental flaw. Your explanation can only be valid under the assumption that another Prophet came and told Elijah God’s instruction and then Elijah was disobedient to God’s instruction. We have no record of God using another Prophet to bring this instruction neither do we have any basis for such an assumption. As a Prophet, God would have spoken to Elijah directly in a vision or in dream or any other way. It follows then that at the time of God’s instruction to Elijah, it was ONLY Elijah who would have shared the instruction. This then becomes the same as when WMB saw a vision and shared it as God’s Word to Him. Applying your critics perspective, Elijah dying without his vision being fulfilled would have been a failed vision in your standards. That’s the scriptural precedent that you fail to see and yet it was very apparent to our congregation. | |||
::Sorry, Pastor Gqwena, but your explanation makes no sense. Who said he received a vision? | |||
:''As I said in my previous response, I find it most strange that you do not brand your process of justifying this Elijah scripture as cognitive dissonance but yet when we apply the same process on justifying our Prophet you brand it as cognitive dissonance. It’s strange how you cannot see that in both situations there is harmonisation of cognitions. I think it’s time you become honest with yourself and accept that you have been taken over by a spirit that seeks to just drag God’s Prophet WMB under the bus at all costs. | |||
:You question whether I have read Festinger’s cognitive dissonance theory, you don’t know my educational background neither do you know how well read or unread I am, so it’s safe not to make assumptions. However, I believe the gospel is supposed to be presented in simple plain language which the common man can hear gladly. | |||
:I notice you try and delude people with theories, psychological explanations and dictionary definitions that try and confuse a simple issue. A typical example is when you tried to define fact and truth in your episode 1 by dictionary definitions when the example I gave was simple and straight forward and could be followed by any common man. Your whole evidence gathering to disprove God’s Prophet is based on finding facts. John questions WMB’s birthday based on documental evidence which is exactly the same as the example I gave of my birthday. There are many reasons why a document can have different information to the TRUE position. You are putting a man (WMB) that is no longer here on trial when truth could only be established from him. I wonder how you even believe the bible if your belief system is based on evidence. What evidence do you have that Moses saw a burning bush? | |||
:You mentioned that I cannot discern whether WMB’s gift was fake or real unless I talk to people who were the subject of the gift. Has spiritual discernment been reduced to interviews now??? Where then is the Holy Spirit I wonder? I tell you, any genuine Christian with the Spirit of Christ if you get them to listen to the Tapes of WMB they can tell you what Spirit was on the man. Even TL Osborne saw Christ in the man and called it his second vision of Jesus Christ. | |||
:You quote “discernments were accurate by healings were rare”. With your 40 years that you spent in the message, have you forgotten that the Prophet said the discernment does NOT heal you? Be that as it may, we no longer go by just the testimonies of healings on tapes only. We have many healings and testimonies among believers which came after discernment BY TAPES. We have testimonies of the PILLAR OF FIRE that you dispute coming down on a tape being played. We have countless miracles that have taken place because of this message. SO YOUR EVIDENCES OF HEALINGS BEING RARE IS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS TO US. God has done proved to us the reality of this message. | |||
:Finally, what has been achieved in your life. If WMB’s message caused it you should be worried. Jesus Christ changed my life. It is him who I serve and none other. | |||
:I find it strange that you cannot believe that God uses a MAN ministry to bring people to Himself. What happened to the Scriptures like Rom 10:14-15 – how shall they hear without a preacher; 1 Corin 1:21 – it pleased God through the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe; 1 Corin 11:1 – be ye followers of me even as I follow Christ. How can it be worrying to be brought to Christ through a message of WMB. Unfortunately in this case of what has been achieved in my life, I am the judge because it happened to me and I speak for myself. The Message of WMB brought me to my LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST and I am not ashamed to say were it not for WMB, I would not know Christ the way I know Him today. | |||
:Finally Rod, we can debate about facts and evidences and visions etc, BUT the ultimate test is in the life. The bible tells us a tree is known by its fruits. My testimony is THE MESSAGE OF WMB PRODUCES A CHRISTIAN LIFE IN PEOPLE. That I am a witness of and NOBODY can tell me otherwise. I wonder what type of a life the so called people who left the message are now living? We hear of former deacons now alcoholics – lets give it time and by their fruits we shall know them. | |||