Plum and Apple Trees: Difference between revisions

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~~'''~~William Branham ~~had a vision''' on the morning he~~ laid the cornerstone for the Branham Tabernacle of a ~~grove of plum and apple trees~~. ~~His interpretation of this vision is clear - both Trinitarians and Oneness believers are found in the Cross~~. ~~Yet~~ in ~~1965~~, he ~~completely goes against this vision from God and declares Trinitarians~~ to ~~be lost~~.

On the morning William Branham laid the cornerstone for the Branham Tabernacle in 1933, he had a vision. It's not a minor or obscure one. Branham described it in his own words, it made it into his published "Life Story," and he referred back to it repeatedly throughout his ministry. And his own interpretation of it is the problem.

~~Did God change His mind, or was~~ the ~~vision wrong?~~

=The Vision of the Plum and Apple Trees=

[[Image:AppleTree.jpg|thumb|75px|left|The Apple Tree represents Trinitarian Christians]]

[[Image:PlumbTree.jpg|thumb|75px|right|The Plum Tree represents Oneness Christians]]

In the vision, the Apple Tree represents Trinitarian Christians and the Plum Tree represents Oneness Christians. Here's how Branham himself described what he saw:

<blockquote>''"And just then I held up my hands, and was shouting the glory of God. And all of a sudden that Pillar of Fire came down over the top of those trees, and the roar and the lightnings flashed, and the winds blew real hard, and the leaves begin to blowing from the trees. And I looked way down, it was in the shape of this Tabernacle, the way it sets now. And at the end where the pulpit would be, there were three trees, and those three trees taken shape of three crosses. And I noticed that both plums and apples were gathered in a clusters around the middle cross."''</blockquote>

That's not ambiguous. Both kinds of fruit — Trinitarian and Oneness — gathered around the cross together. And Branham spelled out exactly what it meant:

<blockquote>''"Both fruits was found in the cross. See? Both of them was in the cross, all clustered together... All found in the cross, because they all believed in God and are filled with the Holy Ghost, and have the Christian works and signs following."''</blockquote>

He even made a point of saying he'd lived by this vision:

<blockquote>''"I have never proselyted. I've never said, 'All you trinitarians be oneness' or 'all you oneness be trinitarians.' I have planted in their own vessels... I've eat the fruit from both sides, salvation on both sides."''</blockquote>

So far, so clear. Trinitarians are saved. Oneness believers are saved. The vision confirmed it. God showed it. Branham believed it and said so openly to his congregation — including the Trinitarians sitting in the room.

Then 1965 happened.

In July of that year, Branham said this:

<blockquote>''"Jesus said, 'Except you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.' He is the revelation of God, the Spirit of God revealed in human form. If you can't believe that, you're lost. You put Him a third person, second person, or any other person besides God, you're lost."'' (July 25, 1965)</blockquote>

"You're lost." Not mistaken. Not in need of correction. '''Lost.'''

That's a direct contradiction of the vision. Not a nuance. Not a development. A flat-out reversal. In 1933, God supposedly showed Branham that Trinitarians and Oneness believers are both found at the cross. In 1965, Branham declared that believing in the Trinity damns you. These two positions cannot both be true.

This creates a real problem — not a theoretical one, but a concrete, unavoidable one. If Branham's 1965 teaching is correct, then the 1933 vision was wrong. And a vision from God isn't supposed to be wrong. Visions aren't placeholders waiting to be upgraded by later preaching; they're supposed to be divine revelation. If God showed something in 1933 and Branham contradicted it in 1965, one of two things is true: either Branham made an error in 1965 — in which case, why trust his later teaching? — or the vision in 1933 was false — in which case Branham was a false prophet.

Message believers don't really have a clean exit from this dilemma. They can't appeal to "progressive revelation" here, because that doctrine applies to developing understanding of scripture, not to God directly reversing a specific vision he gave to a prophet. If visions from God can be overturned by later preaching, they don't actually function as divine confirmation of anything.

So which is it? Was the 1933 vision false? Or was the 1965 teaching wrong?

Either answer is a serious concession. And Branham's followers have to pick one.

=The Full Vision of the Plum and Apple Trees=

''But I have come to this place that I want to explain what stage of time we're living in according to the ministry that the Lord give me. And I wanted to record it from the Tabernacle. It came on my heart last spring, but I waited till got back here so I could get a--a recording of it to send it to you peoples of the world.''

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''And now, did you notice, '''there's many trinitarian people setting here; there's many oneness,''' and there's many different ones. But how little you would be to fuss about it, because if that part of the vision was true, the other part's true too. '''Both fruits was found in the cross.''' See? Both of them was in the cross, all clustered together, and both plums and pear--or peach, plums and apples rained down on me there: both of them. '''All found in the cross, because they all believed in God and are filled with the Holy Ghost''', and have the Christian works and signs following.''

''Now, the denomination won't have nothing to do with it. It'll be the borned again that'll have anything to do with it. It'll be your experience with God that'll have to do with it. Now, we see so much of that.'' (Present Stage of My Ministry, September 8, 1962)

''Now, the denomination won't have nothing to do with it. It'll be the borned again that'll have anything to do with it. It'll be your experience with God that'll have to do with it. Now, we see so much of that.''<ref>William Branham, Present Stage of My Ministry, September 8, 1962</ref>

~~=Does William Branham later contradict his vision from God?=~~

~~In 1965, William Branham said:~~

:''“Jesus said, "Except you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." He is the revelation of God, the Spirit of God revealed in human form. If you can't believe that, you're lost. You put Him a third person, second person, or any other person besides God, you're lost.“'' (July 25, 1965)

If William Branham was correct in condemning Trinitarians in 1965, then the vision of the plum and apple trees from 1933 was wrong. If the vision from 1933 is wrong, then William Branham was a false prophet as visions should not be subject to [[Progressive Revelation]]. Or did God suddenly change his mind on the subject. Do you think that William Branham was wrong in his teaching in 1965, or that the 1933 vision was false?

[http://en.believethesign.com/images/e/e0/The_Simple_Truth_about_the_Trinity.pdf Click here for a printable summary of this vision].

[[Category:Prophecies and Visions]]

[[index.php?title=Category:Prophecies and Visions]]

[[Category:Prophecies]]

[[index.php?title=Category:Prophecies]]

[[Category: Visions]]

[[index.php?title=Category:Visions]]

[[Category: Doctrines]]

[[index.php?title=Category:Doctrines]]

[[Category: Godhead]]

[[index.php?title=Category:Godhead]]

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 |-
 |}
-'''William Branham had a vision''' on the morning he laid the cornerstone for the Branham Tabernacle of a grove of plum and apple trees.  His interpretation of this vision is clear - both Trinitarians and Oneness believers are found in the Cross.   Yet in 1965, he completely goes against this vision from God and declares Trinitarians to be lost.
+On the morning William Branham laid the cornerstone for the Branham Tabernacle in 1933, he had a vision. It's not a minor or obscure one. Branham described it in his own words, it made it into his published "Life Story," and he referred back to it repeatedly throughout his ministry. And his own interpretation of it is the problem.
-Did God change His mind, or was the vision wrong?
 =The Vision of the Plum and Apple Trees=
 [[Image:AppleTree.jpg|thumb|75px|left|The Apple Tree represents Trinitarian Christians]]
 [[Image:PlumbTree.jpg|thumb|75px|right|The Plum Tree represents Oneness Christians]]
+In the vision, the Apple Tree represents Trinitarian Christians and the Plum Tree represents Oneness Christians. Here's how Branham himself described what he saw:
+<blockquote>''"And just then I held up my hands, and was shouting the glory of God. And all of a sudden that Pillar of Fire came down over the top of those trees, and the roar and the lightnings flashed, and the winds blew real hard, and the leaves begin to blowing from the trees. And I looked way down, it was in the shape of this Tabernacle, the way it sets now. And at the end where the pulpit would be, there were three trees, and those three trees taken shape of three crosses. And I noticed that both plums and apples were gathered in a clusters around the middle cross."''</blockquote>
+That's not ambiguous. Both kinds of fruit — Trinitarian and Oneness — gathered around the cross together. And Branham spelled out exactly what it meant:
+<blockquote>''"Both fruits was found in the cross. See? Both of them was in the cross, all clustered together... All found in the cross, because they all believed in God and are filled with the Holy Ghost, and have the Christian works and signs following."''</blockquote>
+He even made a point of saying he'd lived by this vision:
+<blockquote>''"I have never proselyted. I've never said, 'All you trinitarians be oneness' or 'all you oneness be trinitarians.' I have planted in their own vessels... I've eat the fruit from both sides, salvation on both sides."''</blockquote>
+So far, so clear. Trinitarians are saved. Oneness believers are saved. The vision confirmed it. God showed it. Branham believed it and said so openly to his congregation — including the Trinitarians sitting in the room.
+Then 1965 happened.
+In July of that year, Branham said this:
+<blockquote>''"Jesus said, 'Except you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.' He is the revelation of God, the Spirit of God revealed in human form. If you can't believe that, you're lost. You put Him a third person, second person, or any other person besides God, you're lost."'' (July 25, 1965)</blockquote>
+"You're lost." Not mistaken. Not in need of correction. '''Lost.'''
+That's a direct contradiction of the vision. Not a nuance. Not a development. A flat-out reversal. In 1933, God supposedly showed Branham that Trinitarians and Oneness believers are both found at the cross. In 1965, Branham declared that believing in the Trinity damns you. These two positions cannot both be true.
+This creates a real problem — not a theoretical one, but a concrete, unavoidable one. If Branham's 1965 teaching is correct, then the 1933 vision was wrong. And a vision from God isn't supposed to be wrong. Visions aren't placeholders waiting to be upgraded by later preaching; they're supposed to be divine revelation. If God showed something in 1933 and Branham contradicted it in 1965, one of two things is true: either Branham made an error in 1965 — in which case, why trust his later teaching? — or the vision in 1933 was false — in which case Branham was a false prophet.
+Message believers don't really have a clean exit from this dilemma. They can't appeal to "progressive revelation" here, because that doctrine applies to developing understanding of scripture, not to God directly reversing a specific vision he gave to a prophet. If visions from God can be overturned by later preaching, they don't actually function as divine confirmation of anything.
+So which is it? Was the 1933 vision false? Or was the 1965 teaching wrong?
+Either answer is a serious concession. And Branham's followers have to pick one.
+=The Full Vision of the Plum and Apple Trees=
 ''But I have come to this place that I want to explain what stage of time we're living in according to the ministry that the Lord give me. And I wanted to record it from the Tabernacle. It came on my heart last spring, but I waited till got back here so I could get a--a recording of it to send it to you peoples of the world.''
@@ Line 37: / Line 64: @@
 ''And now, did you notice, '''there's many trinitarian people setting here; there's many oneness,''' and there's many different ones. But how little you would be to fuss about it, because if that part of the vision was true, the other part's true too. '''Both fruits was found in the cross.''' See? Both of them was in the cross, all clustered together, and both plums and pear--or peach, plums and apples rained down on me there: both of them. '''All found in the cross, because they all believed in God and are filled with the Holy Ghost''', and have the Christian works and signs following.''
-''Now, the denomination won't have nothing to do with it. It'll be the borned again that'll have anything to do with it. It'll be your experience with God that'll have to do with it. Now, we see so much of that.''  (Present Stage of My Ministry, September 8, 1962)
+''Now, the denomination won't have nothing to do with it. It'll be the borned again that'll have anything to do with it. It'll be your experience with God that'll have to do with it. Now, we see so much of that.''<ref>William Branham, Present Stage of My Ministry, September 8, 1962</ref>
-=Does William Branham later contradict his vision from God?=
-In 1965, William Branham said:
-:''“Jesus said, "Except you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." He is the revelation of God, the Spirit of God revealed in human form. If you can't believe that, you're lost. You put Him a third person, second person, or any other person besides God, you're lost.“'' (July 25, 1965)
-If William Branham was correct in condemning Trinitarians in 1965, then the vision of the plum and apple trees from 1933 was wrong. If the vision from 1933 is wrong, then William Branham was a false prophet as visions should not be subject to [[Progressive Revelation]].  Or did God suddenly change his mind on the subject.  Do you think that William Branham was wrong in his teaching in 1965, or that the 1933 vision was false?
 [http://en.believethesign.com/images/e/e0/The_Simple_Truth_about_the_Trinity.pdf Click here for a printable summary of this vision].
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-[[Category:Prophecies and Visions]]
+[[index.php?title=Category:Prophecies and Visions]]
-[[Category:Prophecies]]
+[[index.php?title=Category:Prophecies]]
-[[Category: Visions]]
+[[index.php?title=Category:Visions]]
-[[Category: Doctrines]]
+[[index.php?title=Category:Doctrines]]
-[[Category: Godhead]]
+[[index.php?title=Category:Godhead]]